Question 1) How common is it to have the date stamp on the snare match the date stamp on the shells and does this add any value? I have a 1967 Super Classic and the date stamps are the same. The snare is a Supraphonic.
Question 2) I have a 1971 Downbeat and the toms have consecutive serial numbers. The kick is close but not consecutive. How common are consecutive serial numbers and does this add any value?
Numbers and dates add value in terms of assuring that the pieces in a set are original to each other, which makes it more desirable to a potential buyer (in the same way a classic car with its original transmission, engine, etc will command a higher price at sale.)
It's not too unusual to have matching dates, I had a 1956 WFL kit with all matching numbers, and didn't think much about it (Tre Cool now owns that kit.) In 1967 when Ludwig was cranking out drums at breakneck speed during the lingering post-Ringo boom, it makes sense that a ton of drums were assembled and dated on the same day.
Bermuda
Bermuda is correct that they were cranking out drums at a breakneck speed. I have seen many sets that were dated the same day but I usually have not seen the supra match the set with a date.
The sets were made seperate from the supras and when a set was completed, I'm sure they went to the pile of pre-made supras and just added one to the set at random. I don't know how far ahead the supras were built though and if they were just cranking them out, there could be a leeway with the dates. My 1969 mod orange super classic is all dated March 26th 1969 yet the supra that is origional to the set is dated March 20th. Maybe when the set you have was made, the supra pile was low and a drum made that day went with the set. I would not really think it would really increase the value too much but is as Bermuda says good knowing that all the pieces came together.
I have not seen very many if any older sets with consecutive serial numbers either. Badges were just grabbed out of a big bin so someone would have to actually look for matching numbers and with the busy schedule they were keeping, I'm sure there was hardly time for that.
I ordered a classic maple Ludwig set with B/O badges in the spring of 2012 and it was a simple four piece 22,13,16 with 5x14 snare and canister. When they set came all of the badges were in sequential order. The canister was back ordered so it is different but I never asked Ludwig to make the drums that way. That was a bit of a cool surprise.
During the time period in question, I would think it more rare that a kit would contain matching serial numbers. Another reason is that, while a kit had consecutive, or close, serial numbers to begin with, the drums had to go through a final inspection. If a drum didn't pass, it would be pulled and another matching drum used to fill the order. Of course, I wonder how many potential "rejects" actually made it through inspection during this crazy time!
Just like wflkurt mentioned, I also ordered a Maple Classic kit over a year ago, in a Downbeat configuration. I asked Ludwig if I could have sequential serial numbers and was told they couldn't honor that request. When the kit arrived, I had consecutive serial numbers!
Mark
I have seen many sets that were dated the same day but I usually have not seen the supra match the set with a date.
That begs the question (am I the only one who bristles at that term?) if drums were dated when the shell was made, or when the drum was assembled. I'm not saying they had a bunch of Supra shells laying around, and put lugs and heads on as needed when a kit was ordered, but that is unusual to have a Supra dated the same as the rest of the kit.
...the drums had to go through a final inspection. If a drum didn't pass, it would be pulled and another matching drum used to fill the order. Of course, I wonder how many potential "rejects" actually made it through inspection during this crazy time!
Heh... all of them!
I love my Ludwigs, but let's face it, there were never more quality issues than during that '64-'66 period following Ringo's drums' bursting upon the scene. Hopefully, the OP's '67 kit came through sounding great, which, to be fair, most of the kits actually did.
Bermuda
Jon, I personally think the drums were dated when they were asembled or at least dated at the final stage of putting the heads on. I have a 22,13,16 "Ringo" set that has serial numbers that have serial numbers on all three drums starting with 270XXX. The bass drum has a late 60's style rail with the block logo and the bass drum head on there also had the transistion style block logo. The floor tom has a Dec 22 date stamp but unfortunately the last number is hard to read. All drums have the white paint except someone years ago painted the bass drum black inside. I'm pretty sure it's an 8 but I am going on the theory that the shells were wrapped, badges were installed in 1966 and final asembly was done in 1968.
There was also a member here that has a mod orange set that he bought(or his mom bought) new for him in 1970. It has white interiors and everything about it points to late 1967. He was adamant that it was a 1969 and when he finally put up pics, I will be damned if I did'nt see with my own eyes the clear as day Dec 1969 date stamp in one of the drums. That set was probably assembled in 1967 and the color may not have hit it off really well and the set sat for a bit until they finished it and sent it out. I really believe that it was stamped in late Dec and hit the sales floor in 1970. I have no proof of any of this of coarse but it's my theory.
It's also my theory that supras were being made completly(heads on and all) so that one could be easily grabbed when needed. They probably made the shells and sent them over for assembly as fast as they could. I doubt anyone ever gave it a second thought about where the drum would end up in 50 years or even care which set it was paired with. I'm sure to most it was another assembly job for the most part and it was far too busy there to concern themselves with dates and serial numbers. Again just my thoughts....
Remember that up until the late 60's the wrap went on as the shell was being made. While I'm sure that many drums had to be made to order many of these shells were made ahead of time and then stacked up awaiting an order for a drum in that color. A drum in a less popular color or at the bottom of a stack might linger in the factory for a long while before being completed and shipped.
I've often wondered if the date stamp was applied when the shell was made or when the drum was assembled. I'm not sure of the answer.
I was once told that some dealers preferred that their drums not be date stamped and Ludwig would accomodate that request. This would imply that the date stamps were put on as the drum was being assembled but I do not know for sure if that story was even true (although the source was reputed to be WFL II).
Remember that up until the late 60's the wrap went on as the shell was being made. While I'm sure that many drums had to be made to order many of these shells were made ahead of time and then stacked up awaiting an order for a drum in that color. A drum in a less popular color or at the bottom of a stack might linger in the factory for a long while before being completed and shipped.I've often wondered if the date stamp was applied when the shell was made or when the drum was assembled. I'm not sure of the answer. I was once told that some dealers preferred that their drums not be date stamped and Ludwig would accomodate that request. This would imply that the date stamps were put on as the drum was being assembled but I do not know for sure if that story was even true (although the source was reputed to be WFL II).
I agree, 100%! The thing I would add to that is, from what I've been able to piece together, during this post-Beatles period, chaos reigned in the Ludwig factory and often times boxes of badges would just be spilled out on the bench and sets put together without any regard for consecutive numbering. As you point out, the pre-made shells may have very well had date stamps that did not match or were inconsistent with the badge number. It would be my guess that the most popular colors had the fastest turn over and may have yielded a closer match in dates.
