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  #11  
Old 06-12-2021, 11:23 PM
jaghog jaghog is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

Mod all the way
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once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
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  #12  
Old 06-13-2021, 01:54 AM
Dan Boucher Dan Boucher is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

Quote:
Originally Posted by idrum4fun View Post
Here's a picture of a Ludwig 1971 floor tom, showing the Citrus Mod underneath the Black Panther.

-Mark
Wow, anyone discovering that would tend to go nuts. Seems the tricky part would be getting the glue off the mod without damaging it, but quite a reward if you got it done.
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  #13  
Old 06-13-2021, 02:31 PM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

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Originally Posted by Dan Boucher View Post
Wow, anyone discovering that would tend to go nuts. Seems the tricky part would be getting the glue off the mod without damaging it, but quite a reward if you got it done.
Hey Dan!

Getting the glue off is the tricky part! The picture I supplied almost looks like there's no glue! In reality, it can be a real PITA to remove it! I recall Jack Lawton being involved with some of these restorations. I'm sure it would cost a pretty penny to have the drums restored IF there were Citrus Mod underneath. Still, I've never been fond of Black Panther and would certainly consider sending the drums to Jack if I ever found a BP kit with CM underneath! I rather have the Citrus Mod kit!

-Mark
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  #14  
Old 06-13-2021, 05:25 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is online now
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

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Originally Posted by Black Label View Post
Wow thatís incredible. I really hope I donít find tha wrap under the black panther wrap - how the heck do you decide which one to keep especially if the BP wrap is in perfectly good shape�� Thanks for the input guys����
It would be a personal choice for anyone, of course....BUT....The value would be in the Citrus Mod wrap. Also, being that it would be preserved from fading, it would be especially desirable to collectors. It wasn't ever stated that it was an "oyster" finish, but it obviously is an oyster finish -albeit a very psychedelic one! The oyster finishes were Oyster Black, Oyster Blue (both kinds), Oyster Pink, Psychedelic Red, Mod Orange, Citrus Mod...I think that's it...What am I forgetting?

The Black Panther material was basically Naugahyde...but it was also a prevalent material associated to that era... car upholstery used it -any kind of furniture used it...etc. And the name, itself "Black Panther" was also associated with the famous social movement organization of the same name. So, for those reasons the Black Panther wrap is also collectible....But, man...I dunno...It's cloth!
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  #15  
Old 06-13-2021, 08:54 PM
Kenwood Kenwood is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

I always thought some mod orange kits were also recovered with the black panther along with citrus mod?
I must have got my "mods" mixed up

These players of mine were a little scuffed and rusted
when I found the two born together toms
the virgin bass drum came along a little later on and in all cases there was no citrus mod to be found.
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2021, 06:06 AM
Black Label Black Label is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenwood View Post
I always thought some mod orange kits were also recovered with the black panther along with citrus mod?
I must have got my "mods" mixed up

These players of mine were a little scuffed and rusted
when I found the two born together toms
the virgin bass drum came along a little later on and in all cases there was no citrus mod to be found.
Hi Kenwood thanks for the pic. I rad somewhere that because the wraps on these BP drums were so thin, imperfections on the shells could easily show and apparently for that reason, Ludwig used their better shells for the BP drums. I don't quite know how true that is. I also heard that because of the thinner wraps these shells have a more "open" tone - provided obviously it is not wrapped in citrus or something underneath it:-0

Have a good day.

Cheers
Erik
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2021, 10:14 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is online now
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

I'm almost 100% certain that Ludwig used whatever shells that came down the assembly line and that there weren't any particular shells that got set aside for BP wrap. They didn't even care if they wrapped over another wrap! So, I think the idea that they used better shells for BP wrap is incorrect. If anything, they would have saved their cosmetically-best-looking shells, for their varnished finish ("Thermogloss").

As far as "more open tone"....hmmmm...I'm not even sure if I know what that means. Terms like "open tone" are very subjective. Yes, the BP material was thinner, but it was also cloth as opposed to the stiffer, plastic wrap or a Thermogloss finished shell. It was like upholstering a shell! Ludwig wasn't being scientific when they decided how to wrap their shells. They were just looking for marketable gimmicks. Lots of companies were doing similar things at that time, too.
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Last edited by O-Lugs; 06-17-2021 at 02:33 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-16-2021, 12:01 PM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

I'm convinced that there was--and still is--no MOJO to most drum shells--just cosmetics. The drum makers can make a big deal about using wood from logs that had been salvaged from ancient ship wrecks or rare Madagascar gozinta wood (you know..that wood gozinta these drum shells). The choice of drum heads and the tensioning of those heads can make it difficult for a drum maven to identify or choose the better sounding drum in a blind listening test of a $50 drum and a $500 drum. Go ahead...call me a cynic. I'll proudly wear that label. I do make a distinction for the typical 1950s-1960s Asian firewood drums that sound "boingy" from a combination of the lousy wood used for the shells and the cheapo hardware.
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Last edited by leedybdp; 06-16-2021 at 04:02 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-16-2021, 02:59 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is online now
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

I completely agree with that. Heads and tensioning all day long. But I do understand that some of those fancy wood drums are gorgeous looking and I'm sure it feels good to save up for the fanciest kit you can get and then get it. THAT'S when the drums suddenly sound better than anything else!
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2021, 04:05 PM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Black Panther

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Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
I completely agree with that. Heads and tensioning all day long. But I do understand that some of those fancy wood drums are gorgeous looking and I'm sure it feels good to save up for the fanciest kit you can get and then get it. THAT'S when the drums suddenly sound better than anything else!
Complete agreement from me about your complete agreement and the perceived great sound of drums that cost a small fortune compared to the great sound of more reasonably priced drums.
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Last edited by leedybdp; 06-24-2021 at 07:43 AM.
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