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  #11  
Old 09-16-2021, 08:41 AM
Dan Boucher Dan Boucher is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

Apologies, just noticed the photo with date stamp. Very cool.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2021, 08:44 AM
Dan Boucher Dan Boucher is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

Of note is that you have a "SYNCRO-MESH" strainer. No grinding with that baby.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2021, 09:52 AM
thin shell thin shell is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

One thing to keep in mind is that the Ludwig catalog numbering was one year ahead of the year that it was published. They were printed for a June 1 publication date. The Ludwig Drum Company number 57 was actually printed in '56 so was the '56 catalog. So the WFL number 55 was the '54 catalog.



Everything I have read says the WFL badge continued to '59 with some overlap with the Transition badge.

WFL got the Ludwig name back in '55 and came out with a new WFL badge that says Ludwig Drum Co at the bottom. The "Transition" Ludwig badge came out in '58, but Ludwig being Ludwig, used up parts with little consideration for consistency so overlapping badge types existed.



I wonder why the Transition badge got that name? It seems like the WFL badge with Ludwig Drum Co on the bottom would be a true transition badge because it has both the old name of WFL and the new name of Ludwig Drum Co.


But to answer your question, The Swingster would have the pre Ludwig Drum Co badge since it was introduced in '54 before getting their name back and whenever they had the new badges made. Depending on when they changed the name to Barret Deems, there might be a few that have the WFL/Ludwig Drum Co badge but probably not since Ludwig used up badges as they saw fit. The Barret Deems designation first seen in the '56 catalog (number 57) so they probably have either the Pre Ludwig Drum Co badge depending on when they were made as Ludwig used up old badges.
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2021, 12:27 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

Quote:
Originally Posted by thin shell View Post
The Barret Deems was 5 1/2" deep and the Jazz Festival was 5".


There are plenty of 5 1/2" deep Jazz Fests out there, because we are talking about Ludwig, but they were always marketed, and were mostly supplied with a 5" depth.
From the Ludwig drums website:

"First introduced to the market in the 1950s as the Buddy Rich Model Snare Drum, the Jazzfest took on its first form in the early 1960s as a 5.5" depth snare. This version of the Jazzfest would come to join the iconic line-up of tracks that Ludwig snares drums dominate."
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2021, 01:12 PM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

Do you think it was Ludwig's decision to not label any of it's drum gear the "Ringo" model? Or, maybe did Ringo not authorize the use of his name even though he was a die hard Ludwig player?
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2021, 01:58 PM
thin shell thin shell is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
From the Ludwig drums website:

"First introduced to the market in the 1950s as the Buddy Rich Model Snare Drum, the Jazzfest took on its first form in the early 1960s as a 5.5" depth snare. This version of the Jazzfest would come to join the iconic line-up of tracks that Ludwig snares drums dominate."

Now you should know better than to use the Ludwig site as any sort of historical reference. In most cases, they don't have a clue.



Go back and look at the catalogs from that era. The Buddy Rich model had the classic strainer and was 5 1/2" deep and was even called the "Buddy Rich Model Super Classic" starting in the in the '48 catalog all the way through the '56 (#57) catalog. Buddy had left Ludwig by the time the '59 (#60) catalog was printed so Buddy Rich was dropped from the name and the snare was simply called the Super Classic from then on.
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2021, 02:01 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

Quote:
Originally Posted by leedybdp View Post
Do you think it was Ludwig's decision to not label any of it's drum gear the "Ringo" model? Or, maybe did Ringo not authorize the use of his name even though he was a die hard Ludwig player?

Good question...I don't know. To the best of my knowledge, there was never a Charlie Watts model Gretsch or a Keith Moon Premier model, either. And there was never named a John Bonham model, either. No Ginger Baker model....Maybe the Big Four manufacturers decided it was too much trouble....and then what do you do when an endorser jumps ship?
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2021, 02:10 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

Quote:
Originally Posted by thin shell View Post
Now you should know better than to use the Ludwig site as any sort of historical reference. In most cases, they don't have a clue.



Go back and look at the catalogs from that era. The Buddy Rich model had the classic strainer and was 5 1/2" deep and was even called the "Buddy Rich Model Super Classic" starting in the in the '48 catalog all the way through the '56 (#57) catalog. Buddy had left Ludwig by the time the '59 (#60) catalog was printed so Buddy Rich was dropped from the name and the snare was simply called the Super Classic from then on.
I'll defer to your research.

I've got a 5.5" 1964 Pioneer and I also had a 1970 5" Pioneer, too.
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2021, 03:42 PM
robyn64 robyn64 is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

the BD snare is mahogany, is the jazzfest also mahogany? or does that make a difference in the two?

ps. congrats on your purchase mark, hope you enjoy.
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Last edited by robyn64; 09-16-2021 at 03:44 PM.
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  #20  
Old 09-16-2021, 04:06 PM
jccabinets jccabinets is offline
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Default Re: WFL Barrett Deems Snare

I have a snare that came to me with no badge. The strainer and butt have WFL stamped on them. It is a 5" deep drum, 8 lugs and all hardware is nickel. Goofy thing is, there is no tone control. I'm not sure if it is a jazz fest or a Deems.
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