Old 06-08-2012, 06:10 PM
#1
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
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Default Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
I have seen several Ludwig drums from the 1971-72 time frame, both from the main line and from the Standards, that have paper labels. Some of these paper labels have date stamps while other have some sort of date code in the blank for date.

Does anyone have any insight into deciphering the date codes? Many have "71" or "72" imbedded within them, so it is tempting to pull out those digits and call it the year. However, what are we left with when we do that? Is it a month or date or something else?

I have recorded the following date codes, but am not comfortable interpreting them and would appreciate some words of wisdom from a Ludwig fan.

4272
11717
21720
31720
32372
56717
57717
58717
59717
60717
61717
81720
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:09 PM
#2
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
A week has gone by with no comments. No one knows anything about these date codes?

The earliest date stamp I have seen thus far on a label is JUN 2 1970 and the latest is JUL 21 1972. I do not yet know if the use of date codes followed or was intermingled with the date stamps.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by KCDrumDad; 06-19-2012 at 09:09 AM.
Old 06-16-2012, 02:09 PM
#3
mlvibes mlvibes is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
Rick, how do the serial numbers line up with the dates? Could you give us the corresponding serials for both the date codes and the date stamps?

Thanks,
Bill
Old 06-16-2012, 02:32 PM
#4
mlvibes mlvibes is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
Just found a record of a kit I sold a while back.

22-13-16, WMP, one owner set, said he purchased in 1971.

14x22 had ink date stamp of AUG 14 1970.
9x13 had paper label with 58717 date, 944 model.
16x16 had paper label with 59717 date, 950 model.

All serial numbers were 89xxx.



Old 06-16-2012, 06:45 PM
#5
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
Main Line (Blue/Olive Pointy Corner Badges):
Date Stamps:
05/03/71 858320
05/06/71 854286
05/13/71 857811
05/18/71 854922
05/20/71 855058
05/21/71 875365
07/15/71 895467
08/18/71 874131
09/30/71 898656
10/21/71 901044
12/09/71 Blank Badge
07/21/72 913278

Date Codes:
5671X Blank Badge
59717 Blank Badge
4272 826477
4272 828835
31720 852935
21720 878991
81720 879840
56717 895533
57717 896518
59717 898000
60717 899121
59717 906326
11717 907466
21720 908XXX
21720 909XXX
21720 912XXX
61717 917834
61717 917839
61717 917914
61717 917998
60717 918172
60717 920297
60717 920415
32372 930726
4272 930862
4272 931701


Standard Line:
Date Stamps:

06/02/70 37460
02/10/71 41125
05/04/71 47188
04/20/71 48489
08/23/71 49864
08/24/71 49937

Date Codes:
57717 51403
57717 51479
56717 51708
56717 52370
56717 52435
56717 52502
56717 52959
56717 52969
4272 53461
56717 53684
21720 63908
Old 06-17-2012, 01:28 PM
#6
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
Here are the B/O Badge drums in Serial Number Order

4272 826477
4272 828835
31720 852935
05/06/71 854286
05/18/71 854922
05/20/71 855058
05/13/71 857811
05/03/71 858320
08/18/71 874131
05/21/71 875365
21720 878991
81720 879840
07/15/71 895467
56717 895533
57717 896518
59717 898000
09/30/71 898656
60717 899121
10/21/71 901044
59717 906326
11717 907466
21720 908XXX
21720 909XXX
21720 912XXX
07/21/72 913278
61717 917834
61717 917839
61717 917914
61717 917998
60717 918172
60717 920297
60717 920415
32372 930726
4272 930862
4272 931701

It seems to be generally agreed that Ludwig badges with serial numbers were not issued in strict numerical order, although this comment has been made when the topic was Keystone era badges. I do not know that anyone with first hand knowledge of Ludwig's practices has specifically stated that the same approach was used with B/O bdages. Without any additional information, I am not in a position to say that anything was done differently after the switch to B/O badges in 1969. I can only state that simply putting drums in serial number order does not necessarily reflect their manufacturing order.

I am not able to detect any particular pattern in the above. Were date stamps and date codes used at the same time or did date codes replace date stamps at some point?

Perhaps the answer will come from additional reports of date stamps and date codes on labels from B/O badge drums.

Rick

PS: Bill, are the SNs for the WMP set 89xxxx (an additional digit) or something else?
Old 09-24-2015, 05:38 PM
#7
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
This is a (soft of) annual bump to see if anyone has any ideas about the meaning of what I have termed the "Date Code" that Ludwig used on some of its paper labels in the 1971-1972 time frame. It was a four or five digit number which appeared in the section of the paper label for date.

I have been gathering information for a few years now, but no answer has jumped out of the data. I have 166 examples of Date Codes on main line Ludwig drums. I have another 37 on Ludwig Standards. See the complete list at the link to my website (starts about half way down the Ludwig page).
http://gretschdrumdatingguide.com/ludwig-guide.html

Thanks. Rick
__________________
Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com

Last edited by KCDrumDad; 09-24-2015 at 05:39 PM. Reason: link
Old 09-25-2015, 03:24 PM
#8
DRUMR69 DRUMR69 is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
Hi KC
I have a snare with sn# 913084
Paper tag inside
21720. Model 402
Just
Wayne
Old 09-25-2015, 03:31 PM
#9
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 581
Default Re: Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
Thanks. I will add it to the list.

Actually I added it to the website list just now, so it is up to date.
__________________
Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com

Last edited by KCDrumDad; 09-25-2015 at 03:33 PM. Reason: new info.
Old 06-14-2016, 11:12 PM
#10
TheElectricCompany TheElectricCompany is offline
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Posts: 546
Default Re: Ludwig Paper Labels from 1971/72 Time Frame - Date Codes?
If you're still keeping up with this thread and updating your site, I'm the new owner of a 9x13 Classic with B/O pointy badge no. 891816, paper tag no. 56717 (handwritten).
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Zach

Currently looking for a 3-ply 24x14 Ludwig in champagne sparkle w/rail consolette and cymbal mount!
 

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