When looking at the bearing edges of a 70s Ludwig I just acquired, on the top edge of the 13" and 16", there is this strange overlap in the ply, causing it to loose the sharness of the edge for a flat surface of almost 1/8" wide. Wondering if that's frequent, considered as bad workmanship? Does it affect really the tone, and is this an easy fix by recuting the edges?

thx !

That would be bad workmanship. Looks like part of the inner poplar ply blew out while cutting the scarf joint and the guy just went with it. I would either cut a piece of poplar to tightly fit that void or use a two part wood filler such as PC Woody and fill the void and hand shape and true up the edge.

As to whether it affects the sound.. If it tunes up well and sounds good then it's probably fine. Lot's of Ludwig edges looked really bad, especially in the mid to late 60s. Some worked fine and some caused problems so it really needs to be addressed on a drum to drum basis.

Sorry about those drums, man. I feel partly responsible for choosing that kit, as a favorite, out of the three kits you showed the other day.

That is the infamous Ludwig lump....VERY common among that era of Ludwig shells. As explained, it's the scarf joint overlap that causes the bulge. It doesn't seem to affect tuning....most of the time.

That's how they were made at the time. The plywood was made as a flat 3 ply board, then a scarf joint was cut into the two ends and it was bent into a circle. In your second photo I don't see any gap in the shell itself, that open area is in the re-ring. Still not great but not quite as serious. I can't really tell much on the first picture due to the paint.

Back in the day drums were not built to anywhere near the finish standards that we all expect and take for granted today. That's just the way it was. The drums still sounded good and that was enough. Back then drums were made of "wood" (nobody knew what kind....or cared), no one knew what a bearing edge was, or how thick the hoops were or really anything like that. You picked the brand you liked and pretty much accepted what they provided. And they got away with it. That wouldn't fly today but taken in context those look pretty much par for the course.

You are right, at the time they had nothing to compare the workmanship, as you said, people just bought "drums made out of wood". I wonder if they had some sort of quality control at the time.

I get the idea of the Ludwig hump, but is it common that this hump doesn't have an angled (or rounded) bearing edge at all? I mean, it's totally flat at the hump.

No that's not normal. It should have an edge profile that matches the rest of the shell more or less. Really it gets down to can you tune it easily and do you like the sound. If yes to both, then probably best to leave it alone. Otherwise it needs attention.

I can tune it, but where it's flat I have to put more tension than the other lugs to have it really touching the shell. So when I want to tune it pretty low, I can't get the head completely touching the shell near that flat hump. So, while I can work around this, I find it annoying.

Originally Posted by hochelaga

I can tune it, but where it's flat I have to put more tension than the other lugs to have it really touching the shell. So when I want to tune it pretty low, I can't get the head completely touching the shell near that flat hump. So, while I can work around this, I find it annoying.

Sounds like it is a problem then. At least in certain instances. Ludwig production when through the roof after the Beatles were on Sullivan so drums after that point became more hit or miss. But by the time those shells were made, the Ringo craze had died down. Ludwig was still the most popular drum company, but it is hard to comprehend that clear maple interior shell getting out the door. The "Ludcoat" shell is more the norm. Even when they were done well, most of them had a hump at the scarf joint but some of them were pretty bad. I have a 16" floor tom orphan that I pulled the original wrap off and they had sanded right through the outer mahogany ply into the poplar middle ply in an effort to make the hump smaller. This was a clear maple interior shell.

In order to fix that shell, it will have to be placed on a perfectly flat surface to see if it is true. It probably won't be so it will have to be trued on a perfectly flat surface covered with sandpaper. Once it's sanded flat the outer edge can be cut on a router table. Since the surface around the hump isn't true, that edge usually needs to be done by hand to get it as true as possible. Run the whole thing through the router table and the edge will get messed up at the hump. Cutting the inside bevel has to be done similarly. There is always problems with the inside surface of the re-ring at the hump so you have to use caution and do most of it by hand. Long story short, you need to be carful who you get to fix that.

All I can say is that before buying and looking closer to vintage drums, I was pretty naive. I honestly thought they were build to perfection, with all the knowledge and expectations we have now. I now know, and it makes totally sense, that they really didn't care much about all of these issues at the time, because of multiples factors, previously explained to me here.

I'm learning all of this in a short period of time, and have come to accept all those imperfections. Before making modifications on my drum's edges, I will take the time to play with it, learn to tune it properly and discover it's limitation, if there's any. And maybe in the end, I'll leave it as is, who knows. After all, they have been this way for almost 45 years on this specific drum kit.

One thing for sure, if I ever buy another vintage drum in the future, I will know what to look for !

Originally Posted by hochelaga

All I can say is that before buying and looking closer to vintage drums, I was pretty naive. I honestly thought they were build to perfection, with all the knowledge and expectations we have now. I now know, and it makes totally sense, that they really didn't care much about all of these issues at the time, because of multiples factors, previously explained to me here.

I'm learning all of this in a short period of time, and have come to accept all those imperfections. Before making modifications on my drum's edges, I will take the time to play with it, learn to tune it properly and discover it's limitation, if there's any. And maybe in the end, I'll leave it as is, who knows. After all, they have been this way for almost 45 years on this specific drum kit.

One thing for sure, if I ever buy another vintage drum in the future, I will know what to look for !

I can say I was pretty niave at one point too. We're all on a learning continuum and there's so much more information available and experienced people willing to share than ever before. Thus, it's easy to argue that the 'right now' is really the best time period to be engaged in this hobby, especially if you're one that is into the details/minutia.

I wish this level of info/expertise was available when I was starting out. I got my first kit in 1978, a 'Bonham' kit, plus a set of 8-concert toms. Soon thereafter I wanted to expand it, so in 1980 I bought an additional bass drum that was sitting on the floor of a music store (recovered it to match my kit). But, the 'new' bass drum didn't sound just like my original, which was a bit baffling to me. It was Ludwig drum, had a pointy B/O badge, had the same hardware, although it was a bit heavier compared to the kits original drum, why the difference in sound? I only much later, i.e., after being a member here, realized that the orignal bass was a 3-ply/re-ring while the 'new' bass was a 6-ply drum. Doh! No wonder they don't sound alike!!! I had the same experience with a 12" & 13" double headed toms I added to kit; both 6-ply (hmmm these badges look a little different, still B/O, but different, not as sharp on the edges), compared to the 14" 3-ply of the orignal kit. The 12"/13" toms just dont have the 'warmth' and are just a bit 'sharper' than my 14" (or the floor toms for that matter).

Similiar experience with a Black Beauty snare drum I bought in 1980 as well. The receipt listed the drum as a Ludwig L-417, 6.5"x14" Black Chrome snare. I always had a unfair bias against that drum because it wasn't an engraved model (which in my young mind was the only real Black Beauty) and was written up as black chrome and not a Black Beauty.

What brought me here to the VDF over a decade ago was trying to figure out what type of snare drum that thing was. I've learned a lot in that time, but it some times feels like only a thimble of knowledge compared to some more expereinced folks here.