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Old 08-21-2013, 12:10 AM
Lickbag Lickbag is offline
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Default A real Spizzichino?

So I see this on the Bay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-R-Spizzic...item4175f277ae

I just don't know enough about his early years to know if this cymbal's characteristics align with the genuine article...thoughts?
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:14 AM
calfskin calfskin is offline
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Default Re: A real Spizzichino?

Doesn't look right, unless it is from his days at UFiP and he was goofing around. The made in italy scrawl, looks like more of a joke than anything else. I have seen his signature and it is a bit more defined and elaborate than that and I can't see that someone who was serious about his craft would defile it in such a haphazard way. Anything I have seen( and this is only in pictures) has elaborate hammering. Also the medium ride stamp looks too familiar and the 50cm - 20" inkstamp is the same as found on some UFiP cymbals. That would be a production designation , indicating cymbals in a series and indicating the production of a purposeful style. The chicken scratched signature and country of origin stuff, kind of flies in the face of that and since he only made about 300 good cymbals , did he really use an ink stamp to designate style?
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:35 PM
buzzroller buzzroller is offline
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Default Re: A real Spizzichino?

Bespeco was the Italian company that made a run of Spizz cymbals.
Wuhan was the Chinese company that also made a run of Spizz.

I think the Bespeco Spizz were B8 alloy.

And Roberto was trying to source B20 from China, but he wasn't keen on the quality.

Supposedly he tried to disassociate himself from these models.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:10 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: A real Spizzichino?

Quote:
Originally Posted by calfskin View Post
...since he only made about 300 good cymbals
I'd love to know how you arrived at a figure of 300 "good cymbals".

I know that The Cymbal Book (p167) says

Quote:
According to Spizzichino, at first he produced no more than an estimated 300 cymbals of this type...
But that was written in 1992 and refers to ones produced before his major production period.

If you count 1992 as when he began producing B20 (displayed at the 1992 Frankfurt Music Fair), and he worked until his near his death in November 2011, then knock off a year for the Wuhan trip and 2011 because his productivity was slowed down and you still have 17 years.

So that would be a production level of less than 18 cymbals per year. That's much lower than I'd expect based on the production level of the other independent cymbal makers I know. Maybe we need to cut the years in half again, which would raise it to 36 cymbals year -- but that's still remarkably low by comparison.

And by "good cymbals" do you mean the ones which aren't the Wuhan Spizz or the Bespeco series? So all the ones which he made out of Asian B20 alloy and Turkish B20 alloy and Italian B20 alloy?
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Last edited by zenstat; 08-21-2013 at 08:02 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:15 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: A real Spizzichino?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzroller View Post
I think the Bespeco Spizz were B8 alloy.
Not all the Bespeco Spizz are B8 according to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cymbal Book p167
in early 1991 Bespeco allowed Spizzicino to work on B20 cymbals again
and the OP might be showing us one of those. Which says "Spizz" on it. That would fit with

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cymbal Book, p167
In early 1991 Bespeco allowed Spizzichino to work on B20 cymbals again. As he felt that the name Spizz was too much associated with the non-professional B8 cymbals that he made for Bespeco, he named his professsional series Antique, Bygone Sound
and might mean (only "might") this was an early Bespeco B20 before the Antique, Bygone Sound were established. Some bidders clearly think this cymbal has some sort of historical significance. But then they might also be incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzroller View Post
And Roberto was trying to source B20 from China, but he wasn't keen on the quality.
There are a number of Asian B20 based Spizzicchino cymbals and they are nice, but yes he did find the inconsistency of the alloy a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzroller View Post
Supposedly he tried to disassociate himself from these models.
Indeed he did.

I've seen one other cymbal which was reputed to have had the bell area reworked by Roberto who then signed it under the bell. I can't remember if it was an Italian cymbal or of modern Turkish origin. Only that it was clearly some other brand. *edit* found the database record. It was a pre-split Istanbul 20". I know a couple of the guys who have owned it (that's why I remembered it -- but I had to check the record to be sure it was an Istanbul).
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Last edited by zenstat; 08-21-2013 at 11:53 PM. Reason: retrieved Istanbul pre-split info
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:28 PM
calfskin calfskin is offline
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Default Re: A real Spizzichino?

affirmative
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:36 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: A real Spizzichino?

Well well. Here's the sort of Spizz in red lettering I'm more used to seeing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111143575398

Interesting it should show up at the same time.

Pics archived permanently so they will be here to document this thread (once the eBay sales go away in 2 months or so). I will also add in the completed prices when the auctions complete.

First the black ink SPIZZ which was posted first and led to the discussion







Next the red ink SPIZZ which appeared on eBay at the same time:





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Last edited by zenstat; 08-22-2013 at 06:15 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:28 AM
calfskin calfskin is offline
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Default Re: A real Spizzichino?

The first is a product out of Italy, as crudely marked. Perhaps Mr. Spizzichino made it and signed it there but it isn't a characteristic cymbal , when compared to the heavily hammered cymbals he made as an independent maker. Those were also embossed Spizzichino cymbal factory. The second is a Bespeco cymbal( Spizz brand), which again, it seems was not his best work. The question I have is ; did he really use marker to sign his cymbals and write Ride on the underside? Clearly the two "R's" are with the same hand on the second cymbal and the R and sprawled signature on the first( originally posted) cymbal is similar in certain ways, to the second signature but the form of the S in the written Spizz is a printed S , whereas the form of the S in the signature appears to be a distorted cursive S.
The red block printed SPIZZ cymbal is clearly authentic but the other one , I'm not so sure about. It still doesn't look right to me ,unless it was done when he was first starting out. Probably he began making cymbals at UFiP and did a lot of apprenticeship and partials there, before striking out on his own----maybe this is one of them
At any rate ; neither of these should command prices , anywhere near what his stamped, artisanal work does.
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Old 08-25-2013, 06:50 PM
hardbat hardbat is offline
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Default Re: A real Spizzichino?

I saw those auctions.

The first (with the big black signature) doesn't look like a Spizz at all to me. The bell is shaped like an A, and it just doesn't look hammered enough. If it is a Spizz, then it might either be one he made while at UFIP, or one of the Avedis mods he did in the early 90s (even less probable - but there WAS a short period when he was having trouble getting blanks and was experimenting with using A's as blanks). I suppose it could also be a mod he did for someone.

The second one with the red lettering looks like a legit, albeit very early Spizz. I've seen a few of those come up before. The wide lathing and bell shape look more authentic than in the other. I suspect that the later ones without the red lettering are more desirable.
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