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~ I have questions concerning pointy B/O Ludwigs.

Posts: 334 Threads: 39

Okay VDF here goes....

1. I have a Oct 1, 1970 black ink date stamped 14x18 bass drum in black bowling ball wrap that we think 99.9% might have been special order. It has NO serial number on the pointy B/O badge but has a date stamp. No paper tag.

2. I have a Oct 21, 1970 date stamped 14x14 floor tom in white thermo-gloss finish which might have also been special ordered as well? It has a date stamp & serial number of 809239 on the pointy B/O badge. No paper tag.

3. I have the matching 12x8 tom that came with the special ordered 14x18 black oyster pearl bass drum also with NO serial numbers on the pointy B/O badge like the 14x18... but now get this... it has NO date stamp on it from what I can tell? No paper tag.

The only thing that is consistant is the fact the 14x18 and the 14x14 both have black ink date stamps inside the shells?

So my question is this... why are these Oct 1970 dated Ludwig drums so different when it comes to drums WITH serial numbers and those WITHOUT serial numbers to include those with NO date stamps at all on the special ordered drums when the 14x18 bass drum clearly has it?

Does anybody here on VDF have what they think are "special order" Ludwig drums? I would be curious to know how they are factory marked especially if they are from the year 1970.

~ A true Gretsch & Camco fanatic ~
Posted on 12 years ago
#1
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255

september and october of 70 seems to have been a big transition month for ludwig. the details that you mention don't surprise me one bit. the first of the b/o badges during this tine did not have serial numbers in many cases. you also see plenty of snare drums with shells made for b/o badges that got keystone badges and visa versa.

mike

Posted on 12 years ago
#2
Posts: 334 Threads: 39

From mlayton

september and october of 70 seems to have been a big transition month for ludwig. the details that you mention don't surprise me one bit. the first of the b/o badges during this tine did not have serial numbers in many cases. you also see plenty of snare drums with shells made for b/o badges that got keystone badges and visa versa.mike

Wow, and I have the matching no serial number B/O badge black bowling ball Jazzfest snare that came with my GOOFY "Special Order" grouping. The snare has the low mounted B/O badge... which fits perfectly that Ludwig was changing during SEP 1970 to OCT 1970 with their transition period...

Hum, I just wish, I knew the real (who,what & when) story behind my Oct 1, 1970 date stamped 14x18 kit. Not to mention the 12x14 Jazzette stuff that is also part of this grouping... I'm just so glad after all these years, I kept the GROUPING all together!

~ A true Gretsch & Camco fanatic ~
Posted on 12 years ago
#3
Posts: 6365 Threads: 223

A definite transition period. We may never know who/what/why things on the floor occur the way they do.

Sounds like you've got some great drums. Can you post pictures for all to see?

Posted on 12 years ago
#4
Posts: 586 Threads: 22

I am compiling a database containing information from Ludwig drums. The database contains seven drums with early September through early October 1970 date stamps that have badges with no serial numbers. The first two are Keystone badges. The next five (now including your 14x18) are all Pointy B/O badges.

Note that Sep/Oct 1970 was about a year after the introduction of the Pointy B/O badge and phase out of Keystone badges. Why Keystone badges were used a year later is not clear. Why these Pointy B/O badges dd not have serial numbers is also not clear.

It is not at all unusual for drums not to have discernable date stamps forty years later. Many apparently never were stamped. Others have likely lost their date stamps, as the ink smudges and wipes off easily.

The paper labels you mention did not appear until about April 1971, so it unlikely that your drums would have had paper labels.

Rick

Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Posted on 12 years ago
#5
Posts: 334 Threads: 39

From KCDrumDad

I am compiling a database containing information from Ludwig drums. The database contains seven drums with early September through early October 1970 date stamps that have badges with no serial numbers. The first two are Keystone badges. The next five (now including your 14x18) are all Pointy B/O badges. Note that Sep/Oct 1970 was about a year after the introduction of the Pointy B/O badge and phase out of Keystone badges. Why Keystone badges were used a year later is not clear. Why these Pointy B/O badges dd not have serial numbers is also not clear. It is not at all unusual for drums not to have discernable date stamps forty years later. Many apparently never were stamped. Others have likely lost their date stamps, as the ink smudges and wipes off easily.The paper labels you mention did not appear until about April 1971, so it unlikely that your drums would have had paper labels.Rick

Thanks Rick, your information is very helpful indeed. And I'm glad my pointy B/O badge drums are of some service to you and your research.

Oh by-the-way, in my goofy bowling ball Oct 1, 1970 GROUPING, I also have two 12x8 ride toms... one has Ludwig mount that goes with my 12x14 Jazzette bass and the other 12x8 tom has a Rogers mount that goes with the 14x18 bass drum, I have the matching 14x14 floor tom plus the matching 8-lug Jazzfest snare with script buttplate and low centered pointy B/O badge on shell. ALL drums do NOT have serial numbers on pointy B/O badge... except for the 12x18 Jazzette it has a serial number...

~ A true Gretsch & Camco fanatic ~
Posted on 12 years ago
#6
Guest

Thanks for the detailed info Rick. I've been meaning to send you one more dated drum/serial I've picked up:

blue/olive 781201 10 April, 1970 on an Acro

Steve

Posted on 12 years ago
#7
Posts: 586 Threads: 22

Steve,

Your drum became the 999th drum in my database that has both serial number and a verified date stamp (not including dated drums with no serial number like discussed above or drums with Date Codes on paper labels). Of those, you already supplied 88 from your database and Mike Layton supplied another 191. Thanks again for sharing your information.

I expect number 1,000 to show up sometime later today.

I have been posting updates of the progress of this and a few other projects at GretschDrumDatingGuide.com. Click on the Ludwig Serial Number Projects tab for this project.

Rick

Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Posted on 12 years ago
#8
Posts: 10714 Threads: 579

Rick here is a blue olive pointy badge # for you off an acro 939213

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 12 years ago
#9
Posts: 586 Threads: 22

Is there a date stamp on it?

Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Posted on 12 years ago
#10
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