Cars are not drums. Not meaning to face off with you, just trying to keep this one focused. There's lots of variables at play and if we drift WAY off into the ditch, nothing can be gleaned from it.
I hear where you come from I think it's great how you keep us on the subject at hand. But what makes a builder from an assembler gets mixed up, you know. Outside suppliers provide products to make things so builders can be assemblers
Keep us on the straight and narrow
I hear where you come from I think it's great how you keep us on the subject at hand. But what makes a builder from an assembler gets mixed up, you know. Outside suppliers provide products to make things so builders can be assemblers
I can't honestly answer the original question. I do not know what makes a builder and what makes an assembler when you take into account how markets and factories work these days. I'm just listening to others as they opine. I'm hoping to gain some insight.
I guess a company that builds shells builds drums but somebody who does the hard stuff like edges and finishes is a instrument builder but someone who hangs stuff on shells is a assembler good stuff
So a house "assembler" assembles one by taking a bunch of already sawn trees, ready made wire and piping, siding, pre-fab windows and "assembles" a house.
I know when I was cutting (see my earlier post in this thread) the 45 degree bearing edges with a hand-held router, gently tapping the chisel with my hammer to form carefully measured (by hand) snare beds and then using a home-made jig to drill the lug holes with a hand-held drill, I was crappin' bricks at times. If you make a mistake in any of these operations it's firewood.
I did not want to make a mistake. I think, by definition, at that time I was a builder of sorts. When all that woodworking was done, I assembled the drum. Hurting
-kellyj
So a house "assembler" assembles one by taking a bunch of already sawn trees, ready made wire and piping, siding, pre-fab windows and "assembles" a house.I know when I was cutting (see my earlier post in this thread) the 45 degree bearing edges with a hand-held router, gently tapping the chisel with my hammer to form carefully measured (by hand) bearing edges and then using a home-made jig to drill the lug holes with a hand-held drill, I was crappin' bricks at times. If you make a mistake in any of these operations it's firewood.I did not want to make a mistake. I think, by definition, at that time I was a builder of sorts. When all that woodworking was done, I assembled the drum. Hurting-kellyj
Sounds fair
In my opinion, if someone takes raw stock , metal, wood, mills it, then does plateing and finnishing, assembles their product and markets it with their Trademark is a builder.
So a house "assembler" assembles one by taking a bunch of already sawn trees, ready made wire and piping, siding, pre-fab windows and "assembles" a house.I know when I was cutting (see my earlier post in this thread) the 45 degree bearing edges with a hand-held router, gently tapping the chisel with my hammer to form carefully measured (by hand) bearing edges and then using a home-made jig to drill the lug holes with a hand-held drill, I was crappin' bricks at times. If you make a mistake in any of these operations it's firewood.I did not want to make a mistake. I think, by definition, at that time I was a builder of sorts. When all that woodworking was done, I assembled the drum. Hurting-kellyj
The GC would be the assembler, the Carpenter/Plumber/Electrician that takes his raw stock and builds that home is a Builder. No-one provides ready made stock to build a house !!
You did what ??...You took a hand held and routed the edges,...you got guts !! Next time, plunge the bit through a piece of plywood, use the holes on the router plate to attach it, turn it upsidedown and place it between two sawhorses !! Then you used a waterletterouter to drill the shell ??OMG Why does Roy Underwood come to mind ??
Using the logic that if you don't build every bolt nut and stuff then ford and Chevy are car assemblers. We know that ain't true as long as you cut your own edges and finish yourself your a builder.
This was my post....
"I think shell prep and hardware are the seperation factor between assembler and builder.
Shell blanks may come from Keller, but... edges, beds, hole prep are done in house. Hardware could certainly be made by others, but design is proprietary.
Anything less than that, I think, is just building the other drum with a different badge."
I cant see how you came to your conclusion from my post. There is nothing in your post that even begins to relate to my statement above. I think I made it quite clear that proprietary design seperates assembler from builder. Making the same drum as 27 other boutique "custom drum company" assemblers are pushing at astronomical prices with varying levels of "custom" in relation to finish...ie, offset lugs, venting, paint schemes, holes, etc.... using the exact same generic selection of lugs, spurs, and mounts ... is NOT a Custom Drum, in my opinion.
When a lot of companies were rolling shells with an overlapping kerf joint, often with the wrap rolled right into the shell, Rogers and Gretsch were using Jasper shells that did not have such a joint. Rogers switched to keller in 62, using a shell with cross laminated plies and offset joints that were a much stronger, and more stable shell design. And perhaps more expensive. They pretty much invented the modern bearing edge in 1962. Their Beavertail lug design, hoop shoulder, Swivomatic hardware was entirely house proprietary. And a good bit of that was jobbed out to several different parts suppliers. The design was their own. The COB shells for the Dynasonic and the Powertone were spun by an automobile wheel maker. (I believe that information is in Rob Cooks "Rogers" book).
You do not need a badge on a drum made by Ludwig, Rogers, Slingerland, Gretsch, Leedy, Camco, or any of the various combinations of some of those companies from the 50s onward to know who made the drum, if you have even the most basic knowledge of drum history. However there are quite a few Custom Drum builders in existence today, that once you cover the badge, you would have no idea who made them, because they have the same shell, same lugs, same hoops, same mounts. That is an assembler. The only thing custom you might get is a varying level of finish quality.
So a house "assembler" assembles one by taking a bunch of already sawn trees, ready made wire and piping, siding, pre-fab windows and "assembles" a house.I know when I was cutting (see my earlier post in this thread) the 45 degree bearing edges with a hand-held router, gently tapping the chisel with my hammer to form carefully measured (by hand) bearing edges and then using a home-made jig to drill the lug holes with a hand-held drill, I was crappin' bricks at times. If you make a mistake in any of these operations it's firewood.I did not want to make a mistake. I think, by definition, at that time I was a builder of sorts. When all that woodworking was done, I assembled the drum. Hurting-kellyj
First of all,nice job
I can easily understand how you felt like the bomb technician, deciding wheither to cut the red or the blue wire.One mistake and....well in your case,not as bad,but still,its money out the window.But these builder/assemblers hve a ready supply of jigs they use,to pretty much make the drilling/bearing edge cutting,bulletproof.
More OT though,I guess is how fine a point do you want to put on it?Someone mentioned growing your own trees,and mining your own metals.I don't know about going that far,and I have to believe that nobody actually does that.But I do think that if you design your shells,hardware,and outsource it,but assemble it,and fine tune it to your specs,then you're a drum builder.The same as the guy who builds a set of cabinets,or a house.Are you going to tell that guy,that he's not a builder?Not me.;)
Steve B
This is good debate that was my intended purpose!
