I think they switched to the strait pattern knurling around '68 or so.

'65/66 was the cut-off for the knurling. Note that the knurl-groove change also took place on the gull-wing spurs and floor tom legs.

Bermuda

Thank you for the info.

Oh dear, my drums are all over the place as far as originality, but, they look and sound great,so, no problem for me.

Personally I think the ones you have work better. The older kind tends to slip from my experience.

The slipping issue isn't a byproduct of the knurling, as much as it is of the eyebolt brackets. All of us Ludwig hounds know that a good wrench is the best tool you can have when using these. At least the new ones are machined for memory locks.

my '66 bass drum has the diamond knurling on the gull wing spurs, cymbal arm and on the phone dial rail consolette. I have a clear interior keystone bass drum that has the ratchet style rail mount and the gull wings and everything has the strait knurling. I have not checked the s/n of the later drum but I have always assumed that the strait knurling came at the same time as the ratchet rail mount. Of course Ludwig was never consistent on a lot of things so there is probably not a definitive date. I would be drums came from the factory with a mixture of knurled items until all old stock was used up.

The early tom mounts just had a wing bolt that directly contacted the L rod. The next version had the eye bolt with a 1/4-20 nut. The eye bolt was very narrow on these.

After that they went to a much wider eye bolt and a 5/16-18 nut. There are several versions of this with different internal bracing.

The current ones also have a notch for the memory lock and the inside of the eye bolt has strait knurling to match the knurling on the rod as well as a die cast handle instead of a nut.

I don't think I could agree any more.

Back when I was a kid and had a new Ludwig set in 71 (bought a Pink Champagne Rock Duo set) I had so much trouble with slippage on the toms (had the double tom stand with the holes in the tube with virgin BDs) that I ended up going to Sears and buying a Craftsman socket and T-handle wrench just to replace the standard Ludwig "wrench" that came with it. It worked great, and although I don't still have the drums I do still have the wrench!

Of course, I was playing Rock, so the drums got pounded pretty good and that tended to make them slip a little more...

As I got older (in the mid-to-late 70s) and started playing in smaller clubs I added a new rail mount to one of the BDs (to drop down to a 4pc set from time to time), I still used my Craftsman wrench 'cause even with less of a pounding the tom still tended to want to slip.

The down-side to a bigger wrench and more leverage is that I've seen (and have in my "stock") a lot of Ludwig brackets and mounts that were tightened down too hard and ruined...

Again Thank you.

Now If I bought a "Telephone Dial" Rail and there is no Ludwig script on the

front. Was I sold a replacement item instead of a vintage rail?

I think I am learning the hard way about vintage parts.

Regards to all who have advanced my knowledge about vintage drums.

In MY experience, I've never seen a Ludwig one without the Ludwig on it. That' really don't mean it never happened, though. My first-ever kit was a Gretsch with their version of the "telephone dial" rail mount. It only had 2 holes to attach to the BD (like the current Gibraltar) and had no Gretsch logo on it anywhere. Even though I bought the set used, I do think the mount was original to the kit.

I've also seen some MIJs with no logos. One easy way to tell there would be the hole spacing on the 4 holes for the rail mount -- they were appr. about an inch further apart than the Ludwigs...

Hope that helps, at least a little...