There were two versions of that badge. Go to the main web site and click on badges and go to the Leedy Badges. (I can't tell from the pictures, I'm not on my computer at the moment)

Regardless, if the one tom is clearly date stamped then your set is probably at least from that date.

The drum set in my opinion is very rare indeed and this is probably only the third one I have seen. The snare drum is very nice and a rare drum for sure in that finish.

I'm interested in which badge you have and when you get them you should probably give us an interior shot of the drums.

My guess is that the DrCJW can shed some light on the Slingerland/Leedy relationship and will be able to help with the finish and dating this set.

We will have to wait and see on that...

Sweet set!

David

Were those the ones on Ebay??

Backbeatkeeper, No this is not that kit that was up on EBAY. But it came from your neck of the woods - all the good stuff seems to end up out in California.

This kit is coming back close to where it was born back in the Midwest - Detroit. I can't tell you how happy I am to have got it, but I am really puzzled about the differing opinions on its date of origin.

I feel real good, and thank you David. I will definitely post some pictures of the interiors, and hope that DrCJW can help clarify the dating issues. I feel like a proud Papa!

Hey Mike!

Now that's funny: " I have to apologize to Tommyp... and this is what I ended up with?!" LOL!!!

These look like BEAUTIES Mike! I'm sure you will get it all sorted out as to the date/manufacture... and ... these most certainly look like they started life as a complete kit. And,

I understand what happened on the Rogers Mardis Gras kit, as it similar to what happened with my '66 Rogers Buddy Rich Headliner kit. I had them SOLD, and at my asking price... and then I changed my mind and decided I couldn't part with them. Fortunately, the buyer also understood and we parted as friends. Still, for the BUYER, that has to be awful as you get all pumped up for the purchase, and then... nothing. Which is why I will never do that again... if it's for sale... it's for sale!

Nice acquisition on these Leedy's Mike!

Tommyp

Tommy, That same thing almost happened with this set too! Once the owner got them out to photograph, he had second thoughts...but I am glad that he decided to go ahead. It was a fortunate meeting that allowed me to contact him at the the right time - he had had a Rogers Mardi Gras kit for sale back in April that did not sell at that time and that is what I was checking on when he introduced me to these drums. (He had already sold the Rogers kit).

I felt a little like I was not being faithful, but once I got to find out more about the set & Leedy drums, which really have quite a history, I was sold.

So you like it! That is good, I can't wait to get them and show them off! Just kidding - not really...I will follow up with some pictures of that Dyna Sonic & The Gold Sparkle kit. Both are completed now. I am going to try to get a good Rogers Mardi Gras kit in the 22-16-13 sizes and if possible find a Mardi Gras Dyna Sonic - those are my future goals. I don't know how long that will take, but it is worth trying.

For now I am going to enjoy this drumset and finding out about its history and learning more about Leedy & Slingerland drums. Lots of fun.

Thanks for your tremendous help.

Mike

[COLOR="Navy"]Hello MikeJtone:

I received your email and read your questions. You have the flagship Slingerland Leedy kit ? Shelly Manne Outfit No. 11 ? in a very rare finish. Nice. To answer a prime question you had in your email ? no, the drums in your kit do not date to 1966 ? 1968. Your drums are telling us that, while they are no earlier than the October 1958 shell stamp you reference, they are also no later than 1961.

Fiesta Pearl was first officially introduced on Slingerland Leedy drums in 1959 (well ahead of it being offered on the Slingerland brand, by the way). Shell stamps went on when the shell was fabricated, and before the shell finish was put on. So a drum with an October 1958 shell stamp could easily be finished in Fiesta.

The Blue Leedy oval badge with no postal code 48, such as on your drums, was used 1958 ? 1961; the 48 was added in 1962.

When Slingerland bought Leedy in 1955 it routinely put badges on Leedy toms through 1960, even though its Slingerland brand toms still had no badges during that period. From 1961 until 1966 Slingerland stopped putting badges on Leedy toms. Then, in the middle of 1966 they resumed putting them on. So there are two periods ? one early and one late ? where Slingerland Leedy toms have badges. Your drums are from the earlier period.

The Broadway strainer on your Shelly Manne snare drum has the first version fine tension knob - it is the thin one used through 1961. In 1962 Slingerland started using a thicker knob, one with essentially the same profile as found on its 3-points and Rapids.

Other miscellaneous features that we can see in the pictures are consistent. The two-pad tone controls such as on your drums were discontinued at the end of 1961, when Slingerland switched to its new single-pad J-hook. Slingerland stopped using the 2-hole rail tom mount such as on your bass drum at the end of 1963, switching to the 4-hole rail at the beginning of 1964. The Leedy Hard White calf heads on your bass drum, though they were still available, do not commonly appear after 1961.

To really zero in further I would need to see the drums more closely, including the interiors, but the drums on your kit were assembled sometime during 1959 ? 1961. Are the interiors mahogany (they should be) or maple? Are there P stamps ? and if so are they followed by a number? What kind of lug screws are used - slotted pan heads, double slotted X-screws, possibly single-slotted bottle nose, or is there a mix? Slotted hex head lug screws (post 1962) are not likely.

By the way, some of the hardware in your pictures is from a later period. The bass drum pedal and direct pull flush base hi hat models in your pictures were not officially introduced by Slingerland until after 1961, so either these are post-factory add-ons (very common), or if the kit parts all originally shipped together then the kit was put together from previously manufactured stock drums (also very common, particularly with Slingerland?s Leedy brand).[/COLOR]

DrCJW,

Thank you so much for responding to my question. It is really cool to find out about the background history of this or any other set. I am amazed at the detail and depth of your description and dating info. I do have some other pictures, although not the drums in house yet.

The interiors of all the drums are mahogany with the exception of the snare, that appears to be maple. You will see in the snare interior shot the stamp

"P 020" between the 2 lug nuts inside the shell at the bottom, just below the snare wires. The owner has been very good to go over this with me.

There was one question that concerned the shell mount for a cymbal holder, whether this was original or an add on. From what I have been told, the mount is a 1953 Leedy/Ludwig - but the question is whether this was added by the original owner or drilled at the factory remains. Do you know if these sets were drilled with a cymbal shell mount or not?

Some of the hardware, such as the foot pedal, were indeed accumlated by the present owner and not originally with the kit, as I understand. Plus the kit only had one Fiesta inlaid hoop, the hoops on the drum were chosen as the best visual match when the kit was used for a gig by the present owner.

DrCJW I truly do appreciate your comments about this drum set - it is very interesting to me. I intend to do some studying and learn more about this kit, but I do feel that I have a precious gem that I am fortunate to 'own'. I will post more detailed pictures when I get the drums, and I will look forward to your comments and observations.

Thank you.

[COLOR="Navy"]Yes, well it?s looking more and more like a ?Christmas kit? 1958, or shortly thereafter. If, when you get the drums, you can confirm the October 1958 date stamps then you have one of the very first kits in Fiesta Pearl.

The P-020 stamping eliminates anything after later 1960. The mix of bottle nose lug screws and large washers on the snare and bass with the X-screws and smaller washers on the toms is a classic indicator of late 1950s, and the mahogany shell interiors are exactly right for this time period. Incidentally, check your Shelly Manne snare drum when it arrives ? it?s hard to tell for sure from the picture but it looks to perhaps be 3-ply with mahogany interior ? albeit if mahogany it is in a lighter shade. Shelly Manne snare drums were mostly made in 3-ply with mahogany interiors and maple reinforcing rings.

Yes, I neglected to discuss the cymbal holder. It is indeed a 1953 ? 1955 Leedy & Ludwig model. See the picture below from the 1953 Leedy & Ludwig catalog. When Bud Slingerland and Bill Ludwig made the deal to purchase and split Leedy & Ludwig, Slingerland got a fair amount of Leedy hardware parts. So it is entirely possible the holder on your bass drum was installed at the Slingerland factory.[/COLOR]

Dear DrCJW,

This is really a "Christmas kit" to me - It floors me that this could be an example of one of the first Fiesta kits! This is so much better than I expected, I was simply looking to buy a Rogers kit in Mardi Gras, and I end up with something like this!!

And even as cool is the fact that the bass drum may be original and not modified, not to mention that they used a part from the Leedy/Ludwig period that would have been in the original division of inventory when Mr. Slingerland & Mr. Ludwig bought the company assets from Mr. Conn.

I am really excited about getting this set. It is like a treasure of history - unique American history with a great heritage and colorful story to tell in your own home, plus it is beautiful to look at and I bet it sounds really good too!

As soon as these drums arrive, I will let you know by sending you a message. I will then take some pictures and note key details and post them up. If you want any particular shots of more detailed pictures let me know.

I find it incredible that I may have a set such as you described and that we have a resource like you to call on in these situations because there is no way that this kind of information would be available in books. Hopefully when the drums arrive they will confirm your observations (it would be very cool!, but if not it still is very cool!).

Again, many thanks for checking this set out. I will follow up as soon as the drums arrive. Hopefully in about 2 weeks.

Sincerely, Mike