me too! Slingerland, Ludwig/WFL, Geo Way, Fibes...They could all be considered the best. Like RB 50s and 60s Gretsch for Bebop and hard Bop...It's all subjective really. I personally love the sound of WFL bass drums and snare drums, to me they sound every bit as good as the Geo Way or 4 ply Camcos...Or the Cleveland era Roger's snare drums.

Dude! That's a statement I'd love to see confirmed, but don't think it's correct.

"I am really happy to see that dw embraced their own legacy by designing the Collectors Series Maple with ultra thin shells which was Camcos secret and their claim to fame. That and the fact that the shells were just slightly undersized."

The only thing DW admitted to being influenced by Camco is their use of re-rings. They openly admitted to using the undersized shell design from Leedy.

That's exactly what I am talking about! More complete and total B.S.....No one at dw Ever said they took Anything from Leedy... Now it's dw that dominates the recording studios. Jack! Furthermore, dw shells are not undersized and never have been!

They were only influenced by the Camco re-rings?

I must have missed that one..Lol...Anyway, That's more complete and total Bu** Sh**! We are going to give you the Vintage Drum Guru award for being most Full Of Sh**!!!

You have to realize that there was no info on Camco drums back when most articles were written. There was an article on a Camco snare written years ago back in NSMD where the author talks about how the Camco tone-control touches the bottom head of the snare drum instead of the top head. He went on about how ingenious this was. Well I called him and talked to him once about that article and his response was that he had only seen one Camco snare drum at the time and that's how the tone-control was mounted.

As far as the staple of most studios, I'd really like to see proof of that info. I know in LA there was Jeff Porcaro using LA Camco drums. I have the house kit from The Record Plant in Sausalito, CA. where numerous recordings took place and it's an early 60's Gretsch kit. Also if you really think about the recording industry back then it really wasn't about the tone of the drums for the most part as the bottom heads were off as well as the front bass drum head plus a whole crap load of duct tape!

I fell in love with Camco back in the early 80's but didn't get a Camco kit until 1996. I remember the B&W ads for Elvin Jones but it wasn't until years later that I learned that those were Tama/Hoshino made Camco drums. Speaking of Elvin, his Camco kit is the only one I know of that has winged badges on a Tama made kit!

Over the years I've had numerous Camco kits from all eras and the one thing the "experts" got right is why early Oaklawn Camco kits are so highly sought after. 4 ply shells, slightly undersized shells and COB hoops. Those drums just sing like no other!

Now whether they're the best is all subjective but George Way and Camco drums are definitely my favorites!

Yes I would like to see proof of that as well. I am sure actual proof would be very, very hard to come by. I got that from one of the many phone conversations I had with Jeramy Stacey when we were discussing the sale of my AC White C-650 set. Like Stedi he has since bought another set/s but in both 4ply and 6ply and both from Steve Maxwell. The other studio musician that ordered the Walnut Camcos in 1969 or 1970 that came with a re-ringless 24" bass drum didn't doubt it. I am a total doubting Thomas though, and unless it comes from a reliable source I am not buying...What about Gretsch dominating the Jazz studios in the 40s and 50s? Anyway, that's simply not true about the 4ply Camcos! They don't resonate or sing nearly as long as the 6ply shells due primarily to the roundover bearing edges. In fact the 12s and 13s sound very similar to Slingerland or an early Ludwig, just better. The only so called expert that has ever said that is you! And maybe one of your little cronies but the simple fact remains, it's Not True! I own both as well, and you can't talk your way around it! The 6ply shells having sharper bearing edges on the same thickness shells out sing the 4ply all day, and the Only way to get a 4ply Camco shell to resonate as long as the 6ply eras is to tune super high...Jazz high...That's a fact!

Not a fact and complete BS. I disagree because of the extra plies and glue. The only drums I have that sing better than my 4ply kit is my George Way 3 ply shell kit which I really should have mentioned above. The LA era 6ply kits I've owned were very dead sounding. My Chanute 6 ply sings but they are big drums to begin with. My other Chanute kits with 20 and 22 inch bass drums didn't really sing that well, especially the 20.

I'm no expert. I have not written articles. I enjoy collecting Camco drums and I've been fortunate to continue to find these fine drums. I also enjoy passing on my findings over the years to fellow drummers. You are the only one that continues to call me an expert, something I've never called myself or expect to be called.

i thought maybe i'd find some answers to a question i've had for a while myself.

instead i think i've found out who might be the most psychotic member here.

slingalud, i have a line on some xanax or klonipin if you'd like to try to calm down. you sure you're not more into "vintage" guitars?

remember, sound is all subjective. you're showing your ass by trying to prove your opinion as fact. and the topic had little to do with sound, more with scarcity.

Lame

Indeed, this type of discussion wasn't what I was looking for when I started this thread,... The whole thing on number of plies, Keller vs Jasper, shell diameter, more or less glue, etc... undoubtedly will influence the sound and make drum "sing" longer or shorter but it's been handled before and I'm afraid no consensus will be found as sound is indeed, very subjective.

I do know that this afternoon, I had again the best time, recording some incredible sounding drums. Almost without any effort, both Oaklawn and LA can be tuned to perfection in a very wide range of musical settings. That's where I believe lies the true beauty of Camco drums and why, most probably, they were used in the studio and certain musicians still do today.

Minimum effort - maximum result!

However, my Oaklawns (22,16,13,12,10) tend to perform slightly better in a blues, funk, soft-rock setting where the LA's (24,16,14,13) prefer a louder rock environment.

Below some pictures I took this afternoon of my 6-ply Oaklawns in their preferred habitat.

I dig the 3 toms across the front. I played that setup for years! I've played 4 piece kits for so long now that even a 5 piece kit will confuse me!

Very nice kit!