Um no. You may well know all the Ludwig outfit names.That "flyer" is a modern web site made up by the seller to display his wares on his own web site. It is not an old Ludwig flyer....or as the other Steve B already phrased it above:
Exactly! I realized this after I posted my reply! I figured it was name coined by this seller.
Mark
Once again.......Drum outfit names were created by marketing people to sell their products through use of attractive photos in catalogs. Sometimes the name referenced the actual set up of a well known drummer. At other times a lot of drums were assembled, and given a name to make a catalog dreamer lust for a set up that no one really played. "But, it's on page 14 of the new catalog. So, it must be a real drum set"! Indeed, it was a set that someone played because that someone saw it on page 14, and ordered it just like that. When I was repping for Rogers drums during the last five years of CBS ownership, most of the drum sets that I sold were ordered as pre set outfits of which the dealers chose the colors that they wanted. Occasionally, a store would configure a drum set by choosing the individual components and colors for store stock or for a consumer. Those were the types of drum sets that I was most likely to buy before I became a rep. They are still the drum sets that interest me most in vintage drums. I think that half of my eight vintage drum sets might have appeared in catalogs when they were new. The other four sets would be improvosations in configuration made by the store or the consumer.
This configuration was not in the '67 Ludwig catalog, but my drum teacher and seller ordered it as a "Downbeat", but with specific 20-12-16 sizes.
Receipt dated 4/4/67:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30559980@N07/6925762290/in/set-72157629432619022
Entire 1967 Ludwig Catalog:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/30559980@N07/sets/72157634828039753/
This configuration was not in the '67 Ludwig catalog, but my drum teacher and seller ordeerd it as a "Downbeat", but with specific 20-12-16 sizes. Receipt dated 4/4/67:https://www.flickr.com/photos/30559980@N07/6925762290/in/set-72157629432619022
I think that goes to the idea of the "catalog" sets more as starting points for suggested set configurations. Certainly a lot of people (dealers and end users) ordered up sets just as shown in the catalogs but, just as certainly, a certain percentage of buyers ordered variations of those sets...I want the downbeat set but I want a 16" floor tom in place of the 14...I want the Jazzette but I want a 14" deep bass drum...I want the super classic outfit but I'd like a 20" (or 24") bass drum. It was easy enough to specify these things, and if you weren't buying a ready to go kit off the showroom floor, if, say, you wanted a specific wrap that wasn't in the dealer's stock then it wouldn't take any longer to special order exactly the drums you wanted as well, rather than the catalog configurations. This didn't seem to be a particularly big deal until drums became vintage collectibles. Now people fret about sets that don't exactly match a catalog listing with a catchy name and wonder what's "wrong" when their "Super Classic" set has a 12" mounted tom. Nothing is wrong....it was just the original buyer's idea of their own "perfect" set.
KO and I have pretty much the same take on the catalog retentive mentality. As if a 20-12-16 Ludwig set is not a valid entity because it was not pictured in the catalog for the year that drum set left the factory. But, a 20-13-16 set was pictured on page 17 for that year, so that is the "correct" drum set.
Haven't heard other than super classic, downbeat, club date...
Gretsch had various catalog names for different configurations though. "Name band outfit" was one of theirs.
So a custom ordered 12/13 tom tom, 14/16 floor tom and 20/22 double bass drum kit could be called ...
The Super Club Classic Down Date Beat!
... or something like that. Eye Ball
-Tim
Ah, but you cannot discount the effect of the cataloged sets. What drives the pictured Rogers Citadel kit to the verge of $3k, when something that is for all practical intents and purposes the same thing peaks at about $2300 with the snare drum, as would be the case with the second pictured set. I think is it most likely the catalog effect.
I can tell you the difference for me was the catalog. The Citadel was the kit I wanted in that $2 catalog when it was financially out of range. I bid on the first to a point and let it go again for the same reason. But I didn't even consider the other one.
Quirky, ridiculous, insane: yes. Fact: yes.
If you have the first and want to sell it for $2k, PM me.
So a custom ordered 12/13 tom tom, 14/16 floor tom and 20/22 double bass drum kit could be called ...The Super Club Classic Down Date Beat!... or something like that. Eye Ball-Tim
Or, just call it the Mo-Fo drums that I wanted just like this.
in NYC, it's:
Ya got a problem with my drums?
Ah, but you cannot discount the effect of the cataloged sets. What drives the pictured Rogers Citadel kit to the verge of $3k, when something that is for all practical intents and purposes the same thing peaks at about $2300 with the snare drum, as would be the case with the second pictured set. I think is it most likely the catalog effect. I can tell you the difference for me was the catalog. The Citadel was the kit I wanted in that $2 catalog when it was financially out of range. I bid on the first to a point and let it go again for the same reason. But I didn't even consider the other one. Quirky, ridiculous, insane: yes. Fact: yes. If you have the first and want to sell it for $2k, PM me.
Dan, riddle me this...
What was the difference between the Holiday and the Citadel? Not to digress from original topic, but have been wondering this. Recently scored a Holiday.
