It sounds like you are describing the "modern" drum set played by Gene Krupa with Benny Goodman from 1937! Take a look at the video. Modern style kits with tunable toms were not a rarity by then. Just look at any of the famous big bands of the era, including the photos below of the Glenn Miller band and the Tommy Dorsey band, both taken in 1941. There were no major drum set innovations in the '50s other than perhaps mylar heads. Even the use of ride cymbals was not new, starting in the mid-late 40's. There were always improvements being made to hardware of course, and shell sizes changed from period to period depending on use and the style of the period, but there was no radical changes to drum sets in the fifties. The most radical change in the '40s, other than introduction of the ride cymbal after the war was probably the use of the cymbal tilter! And by the way, lower end kits, including toms with tacked bottom heads, were still available and shown in catalogs in the 1950's. I started playing in the late '50s and saw a few of those kits around, but no one I ever knew played one.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J5Zt2Obko[/ame]

The Glenn Miller Band

[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2815/10123504385_5e09efef60_c.jpg[/img]

glenn-miller-band-1941 by mwsilver, on Flickr

Tommy Dorsey Orchestra with Buddy Rich

[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2874/10123872864_e44ee44b58_b.jpg[/img]

dorseyband1941 by mwsilver, on Flickr

Jo Jones with Count Basie in the early '40s

[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3784/10124430796_37383e5726_o.jpg[/img]

6a00e008dca1f08834017eead95d17970d-500wi by mwsilver, on Flickr

Simple or not, I am just tired of the way you behave, and I did (do) enjoy Mark's more than apposite remarks.

Take care now.

/Magnus

Bos,. I`m aware of the big bands and famous players, that`s why I left room by say`n Here and there and a few exceptions in my second explanation of what I meant the first time. You seem to picking word for word at me and you could technically make me fall flat on that. Good for you. I`m sorry I don`t word everything for the intellect and elite.

By 59 Kits like the Super Classic and Club Date, Down Beat and Hollywood were complete changes. Groups and garage bands took off with these. Bands were smaller and tighter. Then along came the Beatles and off it went.

When you are in a hole, I find it is best to quit digging !!

Value, expected range: $500 - $750 but with many additional factors to take into account.

If you want to sell them quickly they might go for less than if you hold out for the highest price.

Condition matters, but I can't see that from a picture of one small area.

Old stamps tend to get higher prices than intermediate or new stamps, but I'm not sure how that plays out with high hats. It's a general observation based on a conversation with Bill Maley.

Disclaimer: I don't have thousands of data points for these because my hobby time is used up tracking Paiste 602s and Sound Creations. But I do have useful generalizations to make based on my long term study of factors which influence pricing.

I don`t know exactly what you mean by that, I wasn`t aware i am supposed to impress you, or maybe I ruined a crush you might have had on me but I don`t get bad comments on my behavior here often, so I don`t know what you are really tired of !i

Keep on rock`n in the free world !i

I don`t hold grudges, especially on the internet.

They were not a few exceptions, by 1940 they were pretty much the norm. I'm not trying to be critical, and I hope I didn't insult you, that was not my intent. You have made several inaccurate assumptions in this thread and I was merely trying to clarify them. This is, after all, a vintage drum site. Having started drumming in the '50s, I had every catalog available from every manufacturer back then, and there was little that was new other than sizes and configurations and improved hardware. But the fundamental overall design of the drum set had been set for 15 years before that. For all intents and purposes, the set my son gigs with today is little changed from the set Krupa and most other big band drummers used in the late '30s and early '40s.

Bos,

I got thick skin, not insulted at all. Just a little surprised. It makes sense that drummers would follow in the steps of those guys , including the set played.

I could have been more clear. I was referring to the four man band with toms like 14,15,16 up in the racks that earlier would be on a stand as a floor. Things other than the basic 4. Being from the early 60`s I`m not used to the bands with half a dozen string, twenty wind, four vocal and one or two drummers.

When the British bands came over and found what they were missing, big bands didn`t fade fast but air time had a new sound. I think !i

Thank you, I try to get to the water so I can quench the thirst.

Anyway, I have tried to get him to show both stamps and sides of each. He says no sigs. inside either one too. Is that normal for fifties K`s ? He`s taking his time and didn`t mind me asking here for him. Also new to vintage drums and cymbals too. He did not know what he had but now does as far as the drum part goes. He showed only one with the stamp and then the bell with a lot of keyhole which was probably the bottom one.

Does pretty good keyhole cut that quote waaaay down ? I would think so but not sure. I`ll try to get him to weigh them, and pic. them better for accurate advice. Again, thanks !i

That all well and good but that has nothing to due with any fundamental design change in the development of the drum kit as you suggested. Ringo's kit had few, if any, significant differences from a 1940's kit other than drum sizes (especially the bass drum), cymbal sizes and improved hardware. That is the whole crux of the argument. You suggested the 1950's were somehow significant in the design and development of the modern drum set. The '50s were evolutionary at best. In any case, this is the wrong forum for this discussion.

Oh, and did K Zildjian make factory matched hats in the fifties ? As in bottom heavy top light, or two heavy, two light or did they leave that to buyers choices ?