Craigslist? Local/regional classifieds?

I don't know. I really haven't had too many problems with the minimal 90+ ebay transactions I've made over the years. I've bought all kinds of stuff, but mostly drum stuff (sold some as well). I guess you just have to do your due diligence, read feedback, etc. Most of us know, generally, whom to stay away from, so no need to do business with those sellers; unless you really need that item and don't care about the $$. I also think most folks here are wise enough to stay away from fraudulent-looking adventures. This is a great place to share info and discuss shady-looking offerings, for all to become even better drum shoppers.

As for changing ebay, good luck. A mass boycott would be the only way to hurt that machine. Too convenient a source for merchandise, for people to stop using it. I couldn't. ; )

B

I'm not too sure feedbacks make a whole lot of difference. I just had a very poor business transaction with a seller who has over 3,000 transactions and I can't find any negative feedback on him. Lancelot 68 sold me a Ludwig

1123 hi-hat for a negotiated $225 plus shipping. His "but-it-now" price was

$350. The stand is probably actually worth around $175 tops but I wanted/needed it, so I buy it.

When I get it, and I already put this out a few weeks ago, the thumb screw to secure the base does not reach the base stand because there is a shard of metal just at the edge of the interior thread that would not let the tip of the screw actually hit the base rod to tighten the legs. COULD NOT be tightened,

did not/could not work before he shipped it yet his reply to me was "check my feedback. It works". No, it doesn't. I asked for a refund because I just wanted to wash my hands of this very unprofessional dishonest "seller" but he refused. Instead, I figured out that by grinding down the end of the wing nut I bypassed the obstruction and I have what I needed.

But I will tell anyone and everyone that Lancelot 68 is not what his feedback claims. I have his emails to prove my case and I for sure won't deal with him again.

And the real problem is that I bought that stand outside of ebay so no feedback can be left, which I'm sure fuelled his fire and allowed the attitude he presented.

I have had just over 450 ebay transactions since 1999. I have received feedback 407 times. There are some sellers who never leave feedback. That used to aggrivate me, but now, I dont care. I have busted sellers who were shilling several times. I have cancelled more than one bid due to shilling.

I have never gotten badly burned on ebay. However, over the past few years, I have gotten much more cautious. Since it is now almost impossible to track bidding to know you are being shilled, it has made it a much less favorable place to do business. I have met a few sellers who are complete jack asses, and some that just simply lie about their goods.

A great many things I now buy through drum forums, or craigslist.

I'm thinking if you know what you are working with and plan well enough, ebay can certainly be used to your advantage. I believe I've said before that it's hard to trade a horse with a horse trader. End user buyers are much more plentiful out there in the land of ebay as well as Craigslis and we all serf those sites so who's kidding who? I know that if I want to get top dollar for my drums I can do better out there than here, even with all the extra charges because I price it to cover those charges. A much larger audience has surely got to produce better results.

Know what you're working with and make it work for you.

and here's my example...I had a 70's Ludwig 6pc. Butcher Block kit with a beautiful Supraphonic snare on this site for $1,000.00. Not one bite, not a nibble, not a comment. I put it on ebay and sold it for $1,495.00.

And ebay is such a problem for everyone?

I speak only for myself when I say ... I do not compromise my own foundational standards for the glory of a dollar. I do business with those I feel comfortable and trust. Money will never drive a deal and will never be the be all and end all of what I do. So, IF I chose to not deal on eBay, then it wouldn't matter if there were advantages. I just wouldn't sell there. It's rather simple. It is called depth of character. It is not for one man or another to judge or even have input into when and where I deal. I believe that crosses lines. So, if you choose to deal on eBay, it's strictly your business and is not up for discussion or debate. I say, good for you. Sincerely. It is obviously a good thing for you.

As to whether I do or don't ... it really doesn't matter. Nor does my opinion in the grand scheme of things. Just something to masticate upon.

It is simple economics. They provide a service for sellers, including a world-wide market place and expect to receive a fee for that. I have no problem with that. Otherwise, I would have to have a brick and mortar presence and spend a small fortune on marketing/advertising. So I have no complaints. If I have something that I think is easy to sell, I'll start on Craigslist. Otherwise, I move onto eBay.

I think the problem is that feedback is one-sided, though to some extent that is how the business world outside of eBay works as well. For those of you who run your own businesses, I am sure you can relate. The shill bidding and other "pooder model" business tactics are underhanded, but that also happens out in the non-eBay business world. Avoid it as best you can just like you avoid businesses that appear to operate in unethical manners. While we mostly agree that splitting up drum kits and parting out drums is not something we like, it is not illegal nor is it actually unethical. I don't like it anymore than the rest of you but that is only our preference. Sometimes we need a just a lug or a strainer too. I just try and find those parts from someone else.

I think I understand the difference of opinions regarding ebay and the selling of drums in general. Alot of you guys, if not most, have these vintage drums because you want them for you, you bought them to have. At some point you grow tired of them and you want a change so you say, hey I have this kit I want to get rid of...... where I, a guy who happens to play the drums most of my life and quit when I got married in 1980 only to resume in 1999, realized a market out there after rewrapping a kit for myself and selling the extra drums with relative ease. I started out rewrapping sets and taking sets on trade etc. and so on. Then I realized that Musicians Friend is a friend to buyers but not to sellers and before I knew it I had quite a selection of "vintage" drums. Didn't even realize it at first but got educated real quick and here I am. I have a ton of vintage drums and no desire to keep any. I have my kits, for me, but I also have 50 other drum sets to get rid of and 20+ of those are "vintage" and quite nice to be exact. I am not in this business to get rich but I also intend to make a few dollars when I buy a set and resell it. That is what I do with these drums, where you apparently keep, play and at some point exchange your drums at a later date.

Nothing at all wrong with any of this but there are two very different philosophy's at play here and we need to realize and accept both.

I love drums and everything associated with them. The fact that I sell them does not make me any less of drum enthusiast as you, sir, but obviously our personal intent with regards to our drums differs greatly. So be it.

that was a reply to RogerSling...I failed to quote his statement.

"I do business with those I feel comfortable and trust. Money will never drive a deal and will never be the be all and end all of what I do. So, IF I chose to not deal on eBay, then it wouldn't matter if there were advantages. I just wouldn't sell there. It's rather simple. It is called depth of character."

"depth of character".....what are you saying here? Are you saying you are "of better character" because you only deal with those you know and trust?

I'm saying you only sell what drums you have and no longer want and have no idea what trying to sell a 2 car garage and half your house full of drums is all about! Good for you and your moralistic values when it comes to dealing in the drum market. Great. Keep up your very high ideals. Now go buy some drums to resell them, do it for over ten years, and then come talk to me.