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Supraphonic pre serial number and early serial number differences

Posts: 966 Threads: 213

I started cleaning up my newest find, a pre serial number Supraphonic and noticed quite a bit of difference between it and my other Supra, serial number 130519. My father bought Supra #130519 used in the mid 70s. From what I can tell, it was born in 1964. These are both COB.

Several questions come to mind, with pictures attached.

Hoops: Are the pre ser # hoops brass? They seem heavier.

Muffler: Pre ser # has the small knob and the 64 has the baseball bat.

Shell: Very different. The pre-ser # snare has a heavy crimp and deep snare bed. I haven't weighed them, but the Pre # feels slightly thicker. There is evidence of a weld on the pre #, which is not on the '64. The biggest difference is on the inside lip, sort of below the bearing edge. This section is rolled/tucked under on the earlier drum. I have been told that the shell is rather rare, even for pre-serial # Supras. Is this true?

Badges: very similar, but the grommet is slightly thicker on the earlier drum.

Primarily, I'd like to know if the shell on the pre ser # Supra is any more rare or unique than other pre ser # Supra?

Thanks in advance.

jim

...
'68 Ludwig Ruby Red Strata
'68 Ludwig Mod Orange
'58 Gretsch Starlight Sparkle
'69 Ludwig Clubdate BDP
'60s Ludwig Clubdate Black Lacquer / Nickel
'67 Trixon Speedfire Red
COB Ludwig Supra
Many projects
Bunch o snares
Posted on 13 years ago
#1
Posts: 2713 Threads: 555

Also the badge on the right has an R in the upper right corner (Registered?).

Posted on 13 years ago
#2
Posts: 556 Threads: 39

Pre-serial number Supra looks like brass to me, but I'm betting the other is not.

Posted on 13 years ago
#3
Posts: 63 Threads: 2

There are a versions different versions of the Ludwig metal shell. The first version/original Super Ludwig is a welded brass shell (not seamless spun) that has crimped beds (the crimps resemble the shape of the Rocky Horror lips) and curled-in flanges on the inside of the shell. Then they went to the seamless-spun Ludaloy that was also crimped-bedded (not Acousti-perfect), and that crimped looks more like the shape of a Cheetoh in the frowning position. The they go to the straight current Acousti-perfect spun shell.

The welded COB shelled drums can have either the round knob tone control or the red felt BB tone control.

The hoops on the brass drums are almost always COB though there are chromed steel hoops that look just like the COB versions with the drop gate (someone posted here recently a drum with the steel drop gated hoops). There are also COB hoops that have a square gate that aren't that common. I've personally never had a COB Super Ludwig with hoops that weren't COB. I've had red felt alloy Supras (both crimped and Acoust-perfect bedded with COB and the steel hoops), and I've also seen early white-felt Acousti-Perfect drums with the square gated COB hoops. Apparently there was a lot going on at the factory!

Posted on 13 years ago
#4
Posts: 966 Threads: 213

Pre-serial number Supra looks like brass to me, but I'm betting the other is not.

I'll have to take a closer look at the '64. My basis for thinking it is COB is that there's no pitting and it was sitting uncovered in the basement for over 25 years.

jim

...
'68 Ludwig Ruby Red Strata
'68 Ludwig Mod Orange
'58 Gretsch Starlight Sparkle
'69 Ludwig Clubdate BDP
'60s Ludwig Clubdate Black Lacquer / Nickel
'67 Trixon Speedfire Red
COB Ludwig Supra
Many projects
Bunch o snares
Posted on 13 years ago
#5
Posts: 812 Threads: 53

Just as a reference point, my 1963 pre-serial number Supra has a red felt, BB muffler and COB hoops. Don't know if that helps.

Gary G.
1963 Ludwig Gold Sparkle Hollywood Kit
Ludwig Collection: 10 Vintage Snare Drums, 4 Customized Vintage Snare Drums, 4 Vintage Foot Pedals, 1 Single Value Bugle
Posted on 13 years ago
#6
Posts: 966 Threads: 213

Does yours have a seam in the shell? Does it have the rolled inner lip like mine?

Thanks

jim

...
'68 Ludwig Ruby Red Strata
'68 Ludwig Mod Orange
'58 Gretsch Starlight Sparkle
'69 Ludwig Clubdate BDP
'60s Ludwig Clubdate Black Lacquer / Nickel
'67 Trixon Speedfire Red
COB Ludwig Supra
Many projects
Bunch o snares
Posted on 13 years ago
#7
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255

i have a huge database of 64-65 serial numbers. that serial number is usually an april 65 drum. usually has a white felt muffler and chrome over steel hoops. not uncommon to see cob still or one of each. ive got a supra very much like yours and it does not have a pit on it,flawless. but it is ludalloy and not brass.

either way, youve got two great snare drums.

mike

Posted on 13 years ago
#8
Posts: 431 Threads: 25

From auto.pilot

Primarily, I'd like to know if the shell on the pre ser # Supra is any more rare or unique than other pre ser # Supra?

Preserial Supra seems to me COB Supra(Hoops&Shell), while 1964' Supra is luddalloy, but it is equipped with COB hoops.

COB Supra is heavier than 60's Supra and rare. People want COB supra.

Posted on 13 years ago
#9
Posts: 966 Threads: 213

Both shells are COB. I just tested with a magnet which doesn't stick to either one. The Pre-Serial number hoops are also COB. The magnet only sticks to the 64 drum hoops.

I've attached an illustration of the shell profiles and would like to know if anyone else has a pre-serial number Supra with the profile shown on the right, which is rolled over at the edge. Does this indicate that the drum is any more rare or any earlier than other pre-serial number drums?

Thanks in advance - learning quite a bit today!

jim

...
'68 Ludwig Ruby Red Strata
'68 Ludwig Mod Orange
'58 Gretsch Starlight Sparkle
'69 Ludwig Clubdate BDP
'60s Ludwig Clubdate Black Lacquer / Nickel
'67 Trixon Speedfire Red
COB Ludwig Supra
Many projects
Bunch o snares
Posted on 13 years ago
#10
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