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Old 12-10-2019, 07:19 AM
coll3ctor coll3ctor is offline
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Default mystery old avedis cymbal PART 2 (new cymbal)

hi folks,

I am happy to present you a cymbal I recently acquired together with a first stamp avedis. I've had avedis cymbals from all ages before but I haven't come across an old avedis lathed like this - it looks rather turkish (same with the sound!), the other trans stamps I had featured a rather smooth lathing and hammering. Also the stamp appears to be assembled of different parts still, but already features the dots between U(.)S(.)A(.). Your help is really appreciated! thanks a lot.

PS. it also does have a normal-sized hole! (not the small one of trans stamp & earlier)

links to photos
https://ibb.co/WKxJRPB
https://ibb.co/dQFFJMC
https://ibb.co/Qkkbck5
https://ibb.co/GsW6nSY

Last edited by coll3ctor; 01-08-2020 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:29 AM
kevins kevins is offline
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Default Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

Here they are as attachments, re-sized to fit forum limits
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:39 AM
coll3ctor coll3ctor is offline
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Default Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

thank you very much, I am really useless with computers, sorry!
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:44 AM
kevins kevins is offline
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Default Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

No problem. All I did was save the pics to my computer, then open each one with Paint and re-size down to 25% and re-save them. Then used the Attachment option here on the Forum and post them. After you do it a couple of times, it's easy.
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Old 12-10-2019, 01:38 PM
coll3ctor coll3ctor is offline
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Default Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

thanks, will try next time. Also really appreciate input/information on the cymbal
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Old 12-10-2019, 04:52 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

I've got a photo collection of a few hundred pre Trans stamp cymbals and I can go through to look for similar styles of hammering and lathing. It would help to know the diameter and the weight of yours. I do see lots of lathe chatter and the look of the cymbal does make me think of cymbals made by those Turkish cousins.

This is a trademark I haven't seen before. The top portion of the Ottoman mostly fits the style of the later 1930s to mid 1940s trademarks, but with a few differences. The bottom of the Ottoman portion has dot dot dash dash rather then just dots or dashes. There are a number of other features in the top portion which show that this is not any of the versions we are familiar with. I'd say this fits into the trademark sequence between the Pre Trans Stamps and the beginning of the Trans Stamp on stylistic grounds.

The English portion has a lot of multiple strikes and incomplete strikes making it hard to read. But that also places it as before the Trans Stamps in terms of the technology for striking the die. There might be dots after U.S.A. although it is hard for me to see. The dots could also be some sort of other flaws in the surface. I've run across that in one other Zilco Constantinople example.

Here is a 2018 thread where we discussed some of the changes in the stamping technology:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=63669

And here are examples of previously unknown trademarks which have appeared. New trademarks seem to come up at a rate of one per year.

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/show...t=64312&page=2

As far as the mounting hole being the modern 1/2" diameter, the changeover from smaller (7/16") seems to be in the late 1950s in the Small Stamp era. But there are lots of older cymbals where the hole has been enlarged to fit modern stands. Here is some info on the hole size changes

http://black.net.nz/avedis/holes.html
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Last edited by zenstat; 12-11-2019 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 12-10-2019, 05:26 PM
coll3ctor coll3ctor is offline
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Default Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

thank you very much for your effort, you have been so helpful.

I just saw that there are actually two dots behind the A of USA

The cymbal weighs around 1000g and size is 15"

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Old 12-10-2019, 07:35 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

Thanks for the diameter and weight. Yes it does look like two dots after the A in that image. You have also picked up a few more details with this lighting. For example I can see a second MADE below and a little to the left of the one we have been discussing.

Sorry I still haven't found the link to the thread discussing new trademarks. I've been looking but so far haven't found it, nor have I found where I stored a link to it in my databases. Too many databases and places to look! I'm in the middle of a major database restructure because things have outgrown my original structure.
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  #9  
Old 12-10-2019, 09:22 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

Finally found the thread. The link starts at page 2 which is where the A Zildjian trademark comes up. Prior to that it is about K Zildjian Istanbul cymbals. That is of course nice reading as well.

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/show...t=64312&page=2
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2020, 05:31 AM
coll3ctor coll3ctor is offline
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Default Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

thanks a lot, those threads were really interesting!



Also haven't seen those alloy blobs (2, backside of cymbal in position of stamp) before, but I am not really used to anything pre-trans stamp.

Best,
F

-----
UPDATE - new cymbal

Zildjian Avedis 1950s SSA with outline logo (looking legit in close-up), huge bell, off-centre & old-sized hole, and extremely flat profile (around the bell even negative) - 2731g








Last edited by coll3ctor; 02-16-2020 at 04:13 PM.
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