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Old 01-23-2020, 11:17 PM
vintage drum bug vintage drum bug is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Salem, OR
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Default Price shaming

Hello people! the Bug here!
I've noticed with increasing disgust a trend lately that's becoming more and more frequent and aggressive: price shaming.

There's people who go to an extent of not only mocking the prices of certain vintage (or non vintage) drums people wants to sell on the usual venues or Facebook, but now some guys actually take it to the next label, harassing or trolling every posting a particular seller might have.
The minute you post a certain item for sale, boom! There you have three or four "experts" shaming and making fun of your items.

There was a post a week or so ago where a newbie had the nerve to contradict an authority on vintage drums such as Harry Cangany! Harry respectfully tried to indicate the reasons why certain seller wanted a tidy sum for a radio King set and this "expert" kept the debate for days trying to lecture Harry on how he thought the drum set should be cheaper and it "will never sell for that much".
Last week I sold (in only two days) on Reverb a 1978 402 Supraphonic in EXCELLENT condition for $800. I had three or four "experts" on my Facebook page shaming my price, description and reasoning for pricing my drum the way I did (even after the drum was already sold!).

I'm asking this community of vintage drum lovers, aficionados, collectors and musicians...Are these signs of the times where there's no respect for your fellow musician or it might be just a phase where people is overly sensitive to vintage drum prices? I mean if I see someone asking certain amount for his goods, who am I to question his reasons? Isn't it in bad taste to do it? Minding someone else's business? Curious about my fellow vintage drum lovers opinions...
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Old 01-23-2020, 11:40 PM
jmcohen jmcohen is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hayden, Idaho
Posts: 356
Default Re: Price shaming

Mr. Bug,
You have succinctly described the major reason my wife and I ditched facebook. I know that as a businessman, facebook can be an effective tool. But since we don’t have a business, we disengaged and, a year later, we couldn’t be happier.

I have also noticed that the anonymity that accompanies remote interactions emboldens people. Weasels, chumps, and the generally self-important population become experts in their own minds. I simply choose to ignore them.

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Old 01-24-2020, 02:47 AM
allandwf allandwf is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 98
Default Re: Price shaming

An old drum is worth what someone is willing to pay at the time, and many factors can influence this, rarity, nostalgia, sound etc. An owner should be able to ask what he sees fit. Josh hit the nail on the head, anonymity.

Last edited by allandwf; 01-24-2020 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:10 AM
CTMichaelV CTMichaelV is offline
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Shelton CT & Mont-St Gregoire Canada
Posts: 828
Default Re: Price shaming

Vintage and Josh
You are all correct. As my dad would always say “shoot for the moon but be prepared to stay grounded”. I find it disheartening that people would public ally shame someone, especially a newbie, for asking what they feel is a good price (yes some inflate to gain a little cash). I have found that a pm, or an email, maybe even a call is more conducive to a good discussion on pricing and reasonable offers. For those that flip drums the old buy low then resell high fits perfect. For those of us that are seeking vintage drums for our collection then yes, we may pay more especially if it is one we have been seeking for a long time. I have done that myself on many occasions. I agree with the thread. What I don’t like is the public shaming. Yes at times poking a little fun between friends when they put a kit up for $5000 that is a $500 kit is a bit different. But I also feel that we “gurus” should also guide and mentor the newbies in our areas of expertise. Just saying....
No Guru - I just love collecting & learning about vintage drums!

Some of my favorites from the kits in the collection
58 WFL New Yorker Blue Sparkle
67 Ludwig Hollywood Red Psychedelic
69 Ludwig Standard Red Ruby Strata
70's Ludwig BOP "Ringo" Kit

A few of my favorite snares
20's Leedy Black Elite
51 Leedy & Ludwig Knob Tension
58 WFL Buddy Rich Classic Blue Sparkle
63 Walberg & Auge Sea Blue Agave Green Pearl
66 Leedy Shelly Manne Blue Agate Pearl
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Old 01-24-2020, 06:28 AM
vintagemore2000 vintagemore2000 is offline
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Default Re: Price shaming

I listed an original Ralph Kester ching ring NOS in it's original box, this past summer I had purchased 3 of them all NOS in there boxes from a closed music store back in 1978, out came the so called experts telling me I'm asking too much, I got the price I listed it at, After that fiasco I now when listing such items I set the post with no comments, and in the written copy state send a pm if interested.
Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:00 AM
jaghog jaghog is offline
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Location: chitown
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Default Re: Price shaming

It happened to me on reverb they said my price was to high and deleted 2 listings I had
There’s that same group out there the instrument police calling in and complaining
Because the want what you have and don’t like you making money
1968 pink champagne holly wood and downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies

once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:53 AM
JimmySticks JimmySticks is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Queens NY
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Default Re: Price shaming

I think it's just a general corsening of society.

Everywhere you turn people are arguing about something. Decorum is thing of the past. Have you tried talking politics lately? Have you turned on the TV and seen tattooed girls pummelling each other in an MMA match while dudes egg them on? Have you watched cable news? How about a sitcom? Have you seen the level of violence and mayhem on your local news?

Everywhere you turn, including social media of course, has turned sour. Nobody seems truly happy in our society, even though we seem to have everything that we could want. We are a society in decline, and good manners and decorum are declining with it. A return to Godliness would be a good start to turning things around, but I digress.

Sorry for the rant, but I think it's all connected and it's hard to separate the issues...
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:06 AM
vyacheslav vyacheslav is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Default Re: Price shaming

This is an interesting thread!

I've noticed this trend too. I think a lot of stems from people wanting things for as cheap as possible.

I listed some drum stuff on Craigslist recently (even non-musical items, like a Refrigerator and a TV) and the only people that ever contact me are the ones who consistently offer 50% less than my asking price.

Perfect example: I listed a GE Refrigerator that was over $1100 about 7 years ago, in perfect condition for $350, which I thought was a very reasonable price (and based on the research, it was below other similar models). I only got two offers: one for $175 and one for $150. Seriously? I'm supposed to take 50% (or less) of my original, (and very fair) price?

People are so used to getting things as cheap as possible (thanks Wal-Mart and Amazon) that they think even a very reasonable price is overpaying. They constantly nickel and dime you on EVERYTHING. I often wonder if these people go to the grocery store or a restaurant and try to talk them down on their prices!

Between this, and the anonymity of the "internet tough guy", this just keep getting worse. I agree with Jimmy Sticks, because of the internet, everyone is so used to hiding behind a keyboard, so they can say whatever they want and never think about the consequences of their words.

Ultimately, we know that the market regulates itself. We've all seen the overpriced Tama Rockstars that keep getting re-listed over and over on ebay for months (and years). People can ask whatever they want for their items. If the price is too high, the market will say so. If the price is fair, again the market will say so. We don't need anyone weighing in about pricing because they wouldn't pay X amount for X item. Most of these "price shamers" would probably try to talk you down on a Gretsch Round Badge bop kit to $200, so as annoying and as uncouth as they are, I try not let them bother me.
**Looking for a Ludwig Keystone 14" Blue Sparkle Floor Tom**

Last edited by vyacheslav; 01-24-2020 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 01-24-2020, 12:07 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Posts: 4,598
Default Re: Price shaming

I won't even mention the prices I would charge in order to get me to part with my drums because it would likely cause "outrage"

I have never really known what the "fair market value" is when it comes to vintage drums. For me, the prices for my stuff are what I say they are. If I don't get what I'm asking, then I guess it's not time to sell. If I do get the prices I ask, then it will be from people who can easily afford them and who would never feel "ripped off" regardless of how outraged some looky-lou, tire-kickers might get.
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
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Old 01-24-2020, 05:03 PM
Mr.Toast Mr.Toast is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 342
Default Re: Price shaming

Good points made by all!
This reminds me of a thread I started a while back about a tangentially related topic.
My observation was that some sellers may be “chumming the water” (so to speak) with their outrageously over-priced listings. This would only work to influence the “market price” for items that are quite rare, but this is how it could work...I have two rare drums, rare enough that a cursory search doesn’t turn up much information. I list one for an outrageous amount using one account, post the second using a different account or on a different site for a price that is inflated, but looks like a really good deal compared to the other. I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but if group of collectors decided to conspire to do this they could certainly effect prices in a niche market.
I’m sure there is a term used by economists for this kind of market manipulation...sorry I’m just a physics teacher.
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