Rogers Swivomatic info for beginners

[Antipodes]

Posted this over "the other place" but never quite got the definitive answer I was after so trying here.

Camco drums in the 60s not infrequently had Swivomatic fittings.

I've got a couple of bass drums and a rack tom that fall into this category - I can see the holes but I just don't have the original mounts.

We're talking one 20" x 12", one 18" x 12" plus a 12" x 8" rack tom. For the avoidance of doubt (most of) the holes are already drilled so it's just a case of finding the right parts - and it's here I'm a little vague about the whole "angle" thing.

As far as I can see, they did a 90 degree (for the tom - easy) but the single tom mounts for the bass drums usually seem to be placed at around 2 o'clock on the drum and are at a non-right angle. I think Rogers did 60 and 75 degree mounts.....which ones do I need for these bass drums? Would it be the same for a 20" and 18" bass drum.

The same question goes for a possible a cymbal mount collet plates where the rod goes into the drum - which angle?

And, if I decide to go for a "knobby" plate for an L-cymbal arm, are these ready made as one piece or can a "knob" be added to an existing collet plate?

I've already got two 90 degrees collet plates - can anyone tell me if these are the "cast" or the "machined" ones (see pic)?

All advice gratefully appreciated.

[blairndrums]

The collet noses AKA "spinners" are either cast or machined that go on the plates...

not the plates themselves...

I have both kinds.....

[rillow64]

If you want the tom arm straight up and down use the 60. If you want it angled away from the bass drum use a 75. Most of the collet plates I've seen on bass drums are 60 degree but on a small bass drum like an 18" a 75 degree may make more sense.

Cam

[mchair303]

Anitpodes:

Attached is a picture of the various collect plates and noses (cast version pictured). The 70 degree plate was used for bass spurs and usually cymbal mounts on the more common bass configurations. The 60 degree plate was usually used for tom mounts; however, there are always exceptions such as when the tom mount was positioned lower on the bass and thus requiring the 70 degree plate. Check out the collet placements on different Rogers sets through the vintagedrumguide.com, and you'll see all kinds of variations.

Note the Knobby mount in the picture. It's base plate is the same size as the collect plates and has the same bolt hole placements, but it is a completely different base from the collet base. The Knobby mount was used primarily for the L-arm cymbal holder and floor tom leg mounts. You can go with either a Knobby or a collet for your cymbal depending upon the arm you have.

Hope this info was helpful.

Mike

[DanC]

60 degree mounts were used for spurs on 22" and larger drums, 75 degree mounts for spurs on 20" and smaller.

As far as the top of the bass, it depends on where the mount(s) is located. On some drums, the mount is down low, under the lug. In that case, a 60 degree plate would work.
If the mount is higher, in line with the lug, the 75 degree plate will work.

(I think the above is correct, always a chance I have it backwards. Other folks please chime in...)

Also, there were changes to the plates over time. The middle bolt holes on the early plate are a little closer together, a little further out on later plates. Transition was around 1963 I think. They can be swapped, but those 2 bolt holes in the shell would need to be opened up a bit.

Also, the earlier hex material was a little smaller in diameter. Very small difference. This means that a later arm might not fit into an earlier plate. Not always, but sometimes.

Best bet: call Bobby Chaisson at the DrumFarm.com, 518 638 8559. He is the master at this stuff and will set you up with the right parts.

[mchair303]

Dan,

I think you do have the tom mounts backwards; 75 is the lower and 60 is the higher. The lower would have to be the sharper angle...


(You can tell I'm no artist)


Thanks for that info regarding the hole spacing. I wasn't aware of the difference, but it explains some of the enlarged holes I've seen on some basses. I learned the hard way about the smaller hex posts used with the early Clevelands. I have a nice Cleveland bass and all my tom posts and cymbal hex posts won't fit into the collets. Anyone who's looking for these earlier collets, let me know if you want to trade for them. They're useless to me.

[rillow64]

Dan has it right. The higher mount the higher the angel, 90 on top 75 in the middle and 60 on the bottom.

Cam

[DanC]

Originally Posted by rillow64

Dan has it right. The higher mount the higher the angel, 90 on top 75 in the middle and 60 on the bottom.

Cam

Seeing the drawing, I see that this is correct: 90, 75, 60

[Antipodes]

Thanks guys. This stuff is gold.

I need to measure my 18" but, in your collective experience(s), do 18" bass drums usually need a 60 degree (that's what I'm guessing).

Attached is a not particularly good photo of my 18" minus all lugs - I'd appreciate an opinion on what y'all think it needs.

What I think I need is one 60 degree collet plate, one 75 degree, a knobby, an extra collet for my 90 degree plate and a tom mount arm (how long are the long ones on the base shaft - long enough to have a rack tom at a reasonable height on an 18" bass, I'm hoping).

Thanks again for all the input.

[rillow64]

The down post on the large tom arm is 8". I don't have an 18" bass drum but from looking at your photo I think a 60 would put the tom arm straight up and down it may even lean in towards the center a little. If you need a 75 anyway why not buy it first and try it out on the 18".

I have all the parts you need except the 75.

Cam