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Old 11-25-2018, 09:29 PM
OldSchool OldSchool is offline
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Default Dating This Ludwig Kit

So, I picked up a Ludwig kit (22/12/13/16) over the week-end for next to nothing that a prior owner had re-wrapped in a Gloss Piano Black. He apparently didn't see the need to to re-install the original badges or tone controls. I'm trying to date this one, devoid of the badges. I also couldn't find any date stamps in any of the shells. Based on the hardware and shell composition, my original assumption was that it was probably from the '60s or '70s. However, I'm baffled by the double tom post that came with the kit. I've never seen one like it. I'm thinking that it was probably an "add-on". The label on it reads: "MADE IN TAIWAN EXCLUSIVELY FOR LUDWIG. LUDWIG IND. MONROE, N.C." It doesn't seem to fit the rest of the kit components or hardware. Any "words of wisdom" regarding the possible age of this kit and/or tom post would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your time and your help.
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2018, 09:51 PM
johnnyringo johnnyringo is offline
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Default Re: Dating This Ludwig Kit

That's definitely a modern tom arm, probably made in the last ten years. The kit looks like a late 60's, maybe the interior paint was removed. I like them no matter what year they were made.
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  #3  
Old 11-25-2018, 11:51 PM
Rotarded Rotarded is online now
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Default Re: Dating This Ludwig Kit

Based upon hardware (except tom post) and clear interiors, my guess would be right about 1967-68. The tom post is 80's/90's Rockers.
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1964 Ludwig Downbeat Black Diamond Pearl (12,13,14,16,20)
1976 Ludwig Stainless Steel "Bop" (12,14,18)
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Last edited by Rotarded; 11-25-2018 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:38 AM
K.O. K.O. is offline
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Default Re: Dating This Ludwig Kit

To my eye it looks like the tom interior has been stripped rather than originally being clearcoated. If so I'd guess this was a mid 1960s set. Seeing the holes for the mufflers would help as pre-68 they'd be drilled for BB mufflers.

Is that a wrap seam near the top of the bass drum?
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:00 PM
OldSchool OldSchool is offline
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Default Re: Dating This Ludwig Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O. View Post
To my eye it looks like the tom interior has been stripped rather than originally being clearcoated. If so I'd guess this was a mid 1960s set. Seeing the holes for the mufflers would help as pre-68 they'd be drilled for BB mufflers.

Is that a wrap seam near the top of the bass drum?
Thanks for your input! Yes, that is a wrap seam near the top of the bass drum. Very strange place to have one. Attached is a pic of the holes for the muffler on one of the rack toms. I apologize that's it's so blurry.
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:56 PM
K.O. K.O. is offline
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Default Re: Dating This Ludwig Kit

Larger hole on the top would be indicative of a knob style muffler so these probably do date to the late 60's. Early 60's also used a knob design but a five piece from that era would likely have two 12" toms instead of a 12 and 13. Very late 60's or early 70's would have the curved spurs.


Very odd that someone doing a rewrap would be clueless enough to put the seams anywhere but the bottom of the bass drum. Then again they didn't think to put the badges back on either.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:49 PM
OldSchool OldSchool is offline
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Default Re: Dating This Ludwig Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O. View Post
Larger hole on the top would be indicative of a knob style muffler so these probably do date to the late 60's. Early 60's also used a knob design but a five piece from that era would likely have two 12" toms instead of a 12 and 13. Very late 60's or early 70's would have the curved spurs.


Very odd that someone doing a rewrap would be clueless enough to put the seams anywhere but the bottom of the bass drum. Then again they didn't think to put the badges back on either.
Thanks again for your input! I've stopped trying to figure out reasons why prior owners did what they did to their respective kits. It becomes very frustrating very quickly. Could anybody make any sense out of the placement of the seams on this one, the missing badges, the bass drums hoops stripped of their paint and in-lays, or the tom post that doesn't fit the rest of the kit? Not me (lol). Each to his own, I guess.
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Old 11-27-2018, 01:10 AM
vyacheslav vyacheslav is offline
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Default Re: Dating This Ludwig Kit

I'm with the others on thinking the interior paint was stripped.

The double tom arm is a Rockers model, made from the early 90's through the mid-2000's I believe, even though the Rockers series was discontinued long before that.

Were there any extra holes on the bass drum that got wrapped over?

I'm not a Ludwig expert, but it seems to me if the kit is a later 60's like the others have said, wouldn't the kit most likely have had a rail mount? I'm not sure when Ludwig started using the 1" tom post with the diamond shaped bracket on the bass drum. It also seems that with the "gull wing" spurs that would indicate the probability of a rail mount. I can't say I've ever seen a vertical post tom mount on a Ludwig kit with the gull wing spurs, but I know there are always exceptions, especially with Ludwig.

Were there holes for a cymbal bracket/arm?

As an aside, I agree about being clueless enough to leave the wrap seam on top. Also, if you're going to re-wrap a vintage Ludwig kit, why choose gloss black? By the far the most common and boring wrap color available. Yes, I know it looks classy on some drums (kind of like a tuxedo), but it just doesn't seem to fit a vintage Ludwig kit.
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Last edited by vyacheslav; 11-27-2018 at 01:14 AM.
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2018, 06:31 AM
jccabinets jccabinets is offline
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Default Re: Dating This Ludwig Kit

Gary
I would consider re-wrapping that one due to the seam on top of the bass drum, how stupid. Nice score though, for next to nothing.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:41 AM
OldSchool OldSchool is offline
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Default Re: Dating This Ludwig Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by vyacheslav View Post
I'm with the others on thinking the interior paint was stripped.

The double tom arm is a Rockers model, made from the early 90's through the mid-2000's I believe, even though the Rockers series was discontinued long before that.

Were there any extra holes on the bass drum that got wrapped over?

I'm not a Ludwig expert, but it seems to me if the kit is a later 60's like the others have said, wouldn't the kit most likely have had a rail mount? I'm not sure when Ludwig started using the 1" tom post with the diamond shaped bracket on the bass drum. It also seems that with the "gull wing" spurs that would indicate the probability of a rail mount. I can't say I've ever seen a vertical post tom mount on a Ludwig kit with the gull wing spurs, but I know there are always exceptions, especially with Ludwig.

Were there holes for a cymbal bracket/arm?

As an aside, I agree about being clueless enough to leave the wrap seam on top. Also, if you're going to re-wrap a vintage Ludwig kit, why choose gloss black? By the far the most common and boring wrap color available. Yes, I know it looks classy on some drums (kind of like a tuxedo), but it just doesn't seem to fit a vintage Ludwig kit.
Thanks for your input. In regard to "extra holes in the bass drum", I plan on popping a head on that one today to see what's inside. In regard to a rail mount, since the kit came with two rack toms, a tom post was quite common and can be seen on Ludwig's Hollywood kits from that time period with the gull wing spurs on the bass drums. I'll be checking to see if there are any holes in the shell for a cymbal bracket. I totally agree with you concerning re-wrapping in gloss black. Then again, everyone has his or her "favorites".
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