Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > Vintage Drums

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-04-2019, 07:22 PM
ronnie gill ronnie gill is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
Default Ludwig COB hoops history

Hello, Can anyone tell me what year Ludwig switched from COB (chrome over brass hoops) to COS (chrome over steel hoops), mainly Jazz Festival and Down Beat snare drums? I believe this change occurred in the 60s and I know the pre-serial number snares in the 60s are COB, I own 2 of them and I know the hoops are original on them. But my problem, I have (2) 1966 Ludwig Snares, a Jazz Fest and a Down Beat snare, they both have COS hoops but I'm not sure if they are the original hoops and would like to put the correct hoops on them if in fact 1966 should be COB hoops. Thank you for your help.
Ronnie
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-04-2019, 08:24 PM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,244
Default Re: Ludwig COB hoops history

Hi Ronnie...and to the forum!

I know that Ludwig switched to COS in the early 60's, but not exactly sure when. We've got some great folks here who really know Ludwig and will chime in when they see your post. I have a 1961 Super Classic snare drum that has COB hoops.

-Mark
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SuperClassic.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	91.0 KB
ID:	125039  
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-04-2019, 08:31 PM
Rotarded Rotarded is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 123
Default Re: Ludwig COB hoops history

The COB to COS started in late 64/early 65. In 1965, and even into 1966, it was not uncommon to find a snare with 1 COB and 1 COS.By early 1966 the changeover would have been mostly complete, although there are anomalies spanning the 60's and early 70's. The is not definitive start/stop known, just a range. Most would surmise that 1.6mm COS would be considered the correct hoops for a snare from 1966.

Last edited by Rotarded; 05-04-2019 at 08:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-04-2019, 10:43 PM
ronnie gill ronnie gill is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
Default Re: Ludwig COB hoops history

Thank you Mark. I love that Super Classic, very nice.

Thank you Rotarded, your information is so helpful. You have answered my question in great detail. You have excellent Ludwig knowledge. It looks like the hoops I have are correct.
Thanks again to both of you.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-04-2019, 11:06 PM
mlayton mlayton is online now
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,035
Default Re: Ludwig COB hoops history

Rotarded is right on the money. Some other tidbits of mid 60's hoop info....I have had two different '64 Pioneers with nickel over steel hoops. Have many '65-'66 drums with one brass and one steel. Also....during this period made drop gate snare side hoops in brass (common) and also in steel (not common). They also made a non drop gate in steel ( common) and in brass (not common). You can often spot the brass hoops if the drum is not been detailed but the hoops still look very nice (no rust).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-04-2019, 11:45 PM
ronnie gill ronnie gill is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
Default Re: Ludwig COB hoops history

Hi mlayton. Thank you for the info. Thats very interesting. It seems that there was no rhyme or reason with the hoops Ludwig used in the mid 60s. Do you think possibly they were trying to use up old inventory during Ludwigs switch to all COS hoops?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-05-2019, 12:01 AM
K.O. K.O. is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Northwestern Illinois
Posts: 1,891
Default Re: Ludwig COB hoops history

There used to be some video on youtube of home movies that Bill Ludwig took in the Ludwig plant in the early-mid sixties. One of the videos showed them making the hoops which then went into big stacks for use later on in the production process. Figure that at some point in 1965ish they decided to switch to using steel (probably brass became more expensive than steel at that point) and started producing COS hoops. New production would end up on the top of the stacks and get used first so when they got down far enough they might grab an older brass hoop that had been sitting lower in the pile. Of course they kept making new steel hoops which would continuously be added to the top of that pile. Once they had been chrome plated they all looked the same so the worker assembling the drum would not have been able to differentiate between the two (nor would they have cared). Depending on production rates of both hoops and drums it may have taken a couple of years until they had used up all the COB hoops they had produced before the switch in materials. Hoops don't have an expiration date so there was no reason to rotate their stock and use the older ones first. Eventually all the brass ones did get used though and from that point forward all the drums were strictly equipped with COS hoops. That's why there is no hard definitive changeover date and how COB hoops continued to show up on some drums well after the steel hoops first appeared.

Last edited by K.O.; 05-05-2019 at 12:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-05-2019, 10:32 AM
ronnie gill ronnie gill is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 11
Default Re: Ludwig COB hoops history

Hi KO. That makes complete sense. I especially like and agree on what you said "Once they had been chrome plated they all looked the same so the worker assembling the drum would not have been able to differentiate between the two (nor would they have cared)". That makes complete sense, without putting a magnet on the hoop you can't tell the difference and they certainly weren't going to take the time to do that, they are on a production schedule and trying to put drums together as quickly as possible. I have decent Ludwig knowledge but you guys are on another level. So thankful to add this to my memory banks. This really helps with one of the 1966 snares (Jazz Fest WMP) I'm restoring now, the top hoop is bent in several places and I have just purchased a 60s COS hoop on eBay. Wonderful discussion.
Thank you all.
Ronnie
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign