Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > Restoring Vintage Drums

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-16-2020, 08:20 PM
vyacheslav vyacheslav is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,549
Default Ludwig Rail Arm Help-Am I doing something wrong?

Greetings,

I am having a problem with the piece on a Keystone Era Ludwig L-arm rail mount (photos below). This is the piece that holds the L-arm itself, and adjusts the angle of the L-arm with the "pin" that fits into one of the "clockface" holes. The top 5/16" carriage screw goes though this piece and the washer/nut tightens against the outside of it to hold the L-arm in place.

As you can see, the "ear " that the screw goes through (and folds over on to the L-arm to keep it tightly in place) is tightened down all the way possible, so much that the carriage screw was starting to bend. I took it off the rail and placed it in a vice to make sure it could bend properly and not crooked. Even when all the way bent "closed" the L-arm is still completely loose. It goes in and out with no resistance whatsoever. It is a 3/8" (9.5mm) Steve Maxwell Reproduction L-arm (the L-arm was missing when I acquired it and I happened to have an extra Maxwell arm I purchased a few years ago). Am I doing something wrong? Why won't the L-arm fit? Is there a trick to this? It's like the L-arm is too small for this holder, but I know the Ludwig L-arms were 3/8" (9.5mm) on both the vertical and horizontal sides. Are the Drum Gods pranking me somehow? Have I completely lost it?

Thanks,

V
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	103.4 KB
ID:	131660   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	88.5 KB
ID:	131661  
__________________
**Looking for a Ludwig Keystone 14" Blue Sparkle Floor Tom**

Last edited by vyacheslav; 07-16-2020 at 08:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-17-2020, 03:49 AM
DownTownFarmer DownTownFarmer is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 2,002
Default Re: Ludwig Rail Arm Help-Am I doing something wrong?

I think it needs to be more P-shaped whereas it's currently pear-shaped. The flat lengths should be parallel from the side view, beginning crisply at the point where the clamping (rounded) area ends on the shorter length.

I would go back to the vice with a 1/4" (?) spacer between the long length and end of the short length. Below the carriage bolt hole. Then place it with the vice gripping *just* below the point where the rounded area ends on the short side. You need to close that circle, with the flat lengths remaining straight and parallel. The piece might be too fatigued for this approach.

If it does work, you need a couple of thick washers with a nice tight ID and an OD that extends right up to the clamping area on the short length side, to keep that short length relatively straight.

[edit] You could leave a spacer wedged in below the carriage bolt to prevent useless compression/deformation of the non-clamping end of the short length.



Hope this all made sense.

Last edited by DownTownFarmer; 07-17-2020 at 04:03 AM. Reason: idea
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-07-2020, 06:53 PM
Ludwigboy Ludwigboy is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 90
Default Re: Ludwig Rail Arm Help-Am I doing something wrong?

I notice on my Ludwig rail arm that when you look at it on the side like your first photo, mine has serrated "teeth" on the edge; I wonder if there is a knurled area inside that L arm holder that meets up the the knurled edge of the L arm to "grab" it and hold the L arm in place when the L arm is slid in and the carriage bolt nut is tightened. If you look inside that area, does it look smoothed (perhaps worn away from use) or knurled?
My photo is blurry but it gives you an idea of what it looks like...
Does this make sense to you, V?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	vvhelp.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	85.9 KB
ID:	131900  

Last edited by Ludwigboy; 08-07-2020 at 07:02 PM. Reason: added information
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-07-2020, 11:04 PM
jmcohen jmcohen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hayden, Idaho
Posts: 350
Default Re: Ludwig Rail Arm Help-Am I doing something wrong?

I think Mr. DownTownFarmer is on to something. Mine looks much like yours, but there is a subtle difference. Note the crease in the first photo. From the side, mine looks very much like yours but with a slight pinch-point as the bar is bent straight.

Josh
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	7D8CA726-26F5-49BD-942D-5A372B203E3F.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	47.8 KB
ID:	131901   Click image for larger version

Name:	6CD997EF-B9B3-4F35-99EE-7396B74D12A0.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	47.0 KB
ID:	131902  
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:09 AM
Olimpass Olimpass is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Windy City Suburb
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Ludwig Rail Arm Help-Am I doing something wrong?

I’ve had the same issue with my hotdog rail or rail consolette L rod clamp.
I had put the carriage bolt back in with washer and nut to hold that position and manipulate the clamping surface to be smaller. (with hammer and dull chisel) It may hard to open back up to fit the L rod back in at that point. Be sure to try a little at a time. But once there, you’re good.
Otherwise you could try putting metal shim in the clamping area with the L rod.

Last edited by Olimpass; 08-08-2020 at 10:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:11 AM
DownTownFarmer DownTownFarmer is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 2,002
Default Re: Ludwig Rail Arm Help-Am I doing something wrong?

A picture is worth a thousand words...which is about how many words I typed above


Mr. jmcohen introduced a key word - "crease". The crease must be crisp! Pic shows how these pieces are supposed to look when they're functioning. Red arrows highlight the crispness of the creases!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	RM01.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	84.8 KB
ID:	131925  
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-09-2020, 07:46 AM
kdg kdg is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 144
Default Re: Ludwig Rail Arm Help-Am I doing something wrong?

I think it may be a combination of the L-arm serrated teeth being worn down over the decades and metal fatigue of the clamp. I would try adding a thin piece of Aluminum tubing that would fit snug over the L-arm. It could be cut small enough to be hidden from view and add enough bite to secure the post firmly.

Additionally, are you sure all your parts are Ludwig? MIJ may not mix well.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign