Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > Vintage Drums

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-25-2020, 02:46 PM
Prostix Prostix is offline
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 217
Default Different Mufflers, is this right?

Hi guys,
I have a drum kit where the floor tom muffler is a baseball style (white felt) but the tom has a round control. The owner told me that the kit was purchased as one complete kit. My question is, is this correct? The tom serial # 549451, floor tom # 526929 and the bass drum #525941. Thanks for any information.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-25-2020, 03:49 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,654
Default Re: Different Mufflers, is this right?

It could be, yes. Ludwig had a few transitions from old stuff to new stuff 1968-1970 and if those badge numbers fall in line with that time, then yes, it could be that they took a slightly older bass drum and floor tom and matched it with a newer tom.

I'd like to see the drums (interiors with any date stamps) and badges in question, though, to be sure.
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-25-2020, 03:54 PM
grantro grantro is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,999
Cool Re: Different Mufflers, is this right?

According to the Vintage Drum Guide Ludwig Serial Number charts, those numbers fall in the 1967/68 range...

Cheers
__________________
1976 Ludwig Mach 4 Thermogloss 26-18-14-14sn
1978 Ludwig Stainless 22-22-18-16-14-13-12 c/w 6-8-10-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-24 concert toms
1975 Sonor Phonic Centennials Metallic Pewter 22-16-13-12-14sn (D506)
1971 Ludwig Classic Bowling Ball OBP 22-16-14-13
1960's Stewart Peacock Pearl 20-16-12-14sn
1980`s Ludwig Coliseum Piano Black 8x14 snare
1973 Rogers Superten 5x14 & 6.5x14 COS snares
1970`s John Grey Capri Aquamarine Sparkle 5x14 snare
1941 Ludwig & Ludwig Super 8x14 snare
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-25-2020, 05:43 PM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,599
Default Re: Different Mufflers, is this right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantro View Post
According to the Vintage Drum Guide Ludwig Serial Number charts, those numbers fall in the 1967/68 range...

Cheers
...which is about the time when the changeover was made from the Baseball Bat to the Round Knob tone control/muffler!

-Mark
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-25-2020, 05:48 PM
Marty Black Marty Black is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 92
Default Re: Different Mufflers, is this right?

Yeah, according to page 22 of Richard Gier's "Dating Guide for Vintage Ludwig Drums," copyright 2013, either the white felt baseball bat muffler or the earlier 3/4" diameter round knob would be factory-original for the serial number of that tom. The larger 1" diameter round knob first was used in early 1968, very close to your serial number. Take your pick!

I've got a "Hollywood" kit in the 367xxx - 370xxx range (Fall 1966), and surprisingly all the drums have the early 3/4" round knob. I picked up - on ebay - a Jazz Fest for this kit, serial number 374xxx, dated Sep 1966, that also has the 3/4" round knob.

Regards, MB
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-25-2020, 07:27 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,654
Default Re: Different Mufflers, is this right?

There were some really early round knobs (machined ones) -pre '63 I believe...and then there were the baseball bats... which appeared somewhere in the '63/'64 range...and then there were the larger, round die cast knobs...I've never heard of a '66 having 3/4 diecast knobs. I'm wondering if someone might have taken off the original baseball bats and replaced them with the rounds...?? I'm not sure without looking at them, but I think the later round knobs fit into the same holes as did the baseball bats. Is that right? Anyone?
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-25-2020, 07:29 PM
Marty Black Marty Black is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 92
Default Re: Different Mufflers, is this right?

"....either the white felt baseball bat muffler or the earlier 3/4" diameter round knob would be factory-original for the serial number of that tom."

Actually, to be more accurate, I should'a said: that the white felt baseball bat muffler is the EXPECTED part on your tom....but the earlier 3/4" round knob muffler has also been reported "sporadically" (according to Mr. Gier) "throughout the baseball bat era."

I always seem to be a bit smarter AFTER I hit the SEND button!

And I also seem to be a bit smarter after I've had a drink.

Regards, MB
----------------
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-27-2020, 03:15 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,654
Default Re: Different Mufflers, is this right?

Please someone clarify this for me....There was an early, MACHINED, round knob...but I don't think it was the 3/4" one. I think the early knob was smaller than 3/4".

Then there was a period of RED felt baseball bat mufflers that was in the '63-'64 timeframe...

...next they changed the felt to white after '64...

...and then, sometime, around 1968, they switched to a larger (3/4") DIECAST knob and the round, gray felt pad on the spring steel armature was the last style until they stopped doing them altogether.

Is that correct? Anyone?
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God

Last edited by O-Lugs; 11-27-2020 at 03:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-27-2020, 04:23 PM
Marty Black Marty Black is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 92
Default Re: Different Mufflers, is this right?

Yes, the early machined tone controls are 3/4" diameter. I just measured a few snares from the early 1960s, plus the 3 toms and snare on my 1966 kit. They're all the same.

According to pages 21-22 of Richard Geir's "Dating Guides for Vintage Ludwig Drums," the red felt 'baseball bat' was introduced in 1962. Color of felt was changed to white in 1965, but "there is significant overlap of felt color." In 1968, the larger 1" diameter knob was introduced.

However, the earlier 3/4" diameter knob was used "sporadically...throughout the baseball bat era"....and "the small knob resurfaces in large numbers when the baseball bat was discontinued."

The reasons for this? Supply problems from subcontractors? A pallet or two of NOS 3/4" knobs being found in a warehouse? I'll let the Ludwig experts weigh in on this.

My 'Ludwig Bible' is Mr. Geir's book, which is based on the study of over 6000 vintage Ludwig drums, and input from at least 6 collectors.

Regards, MB
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-27-2020, 05:29 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,654
Default Re: Different Mufflers, is this right?

Cool! Yeah, it seems like a great resource book! I'm glad some people around here have it because I think our Vintage Drum Forum resource page is no longer 100% correct. This is why I now defer to references from the Geir book. I need to get one....just always forget to follow through.
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign