Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > General Drum Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:17 PM
Drumguy1988 Drumguy1988 is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,894
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OddBall View Post
The repro's have a darker olive, the snare in question has the right tint.
Thanks for pointing that out. I never noticed.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:24 PM
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 548
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumguy1988 View Post
I have a Theory on these Serial numberless Registered R are badges. We know Ludwig never used serial #'s between 140XXXX and 149XXXX. At least I've never seen one. The numbers stop somewhere in the 139XXXX and start again in the 150XXXX. I have 2 Numbers on my list that confirm that. The last number I have is 1396XXX and the first is 1505641. Is it possible these Serial Numberless Register R badges WERE produced between those 2 serial #'s??????????
A couple of questions/comments -
* The highest serial number I have before the break in serial numbers is 1371641. How many drums do you have recorded above that and below your 1396XXX example?
* I have recorded 1501391 as the lowest example I have seen once the numbers started up again. I also have 1502610, 1502783, 1503322 and 1505538.
* You have an interesting theory. I will look at the information I have on the BO2 badges (pointed corner B/O badges with the circle R symbol) and see if they all have characteristics consistent with that time period.
__________________
Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:28 PM
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 548
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumguy1988 View Post
CHECK THIS OUT. I just found this snare on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-LUDWIG...8AAOSwAnxcfCyM

It appears there is no serial # on the badge but It does have the Registered R and the badge does look original and not a repo.
There is a companion bass drum with a no serial number badge available from the same seller.
__________________
Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:38 PM
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 548
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

A link to a nice article regarding fake Vistalites and the reproduction badge often seen on them.

http://www.vistalitedrum.com/article_fake_drums.htm
__________________
Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:58 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 1,679
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Even nicer examples of the badges being talked about.

B Stock badge



Real BO2



Another Real BO2



Fake BO2



Quote:
Originally Posted by OddBall View Post
The repro's have a darker olive, the snare in question has the right tint.
Are you over generalizing from too small a sample of photos taken in different light? See the examples above.

There are other differences between these badges so you don't have to rely on color. I've annotated the differences in the fake badge below:



which describe the same flaws as in the vistalite article. Just a second example because I find it helps to have more than one.

The B stock badge is different because it says MADE IN U.S.A. in the area for the serial number. Plus that area has a line around it as the BO4 does. The B stock badge isn't based on the BO2.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	supra-b-stock.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	127883   Click image for larger version

Name:	real-bo2.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	76.7 KB
ID:	127884   Click image for larger version

Name:	repro-bo2.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	74.5 KB
ID:	127885   Click image for larger version

Name:	real-bo2-also.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	76.2 KB
ID:	127886  

Click image for larger version

Name:	fake-bo2.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	85.2 KB
ID:	127889  
__________________
"The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance" (Robert R Coveyou)

Cymbal Wiki || A one stop shop for all things cymbal
Paiste portal click here || Avedis Zildjian portal click here || K Zildjian Istanbul portal click here

Last edited by zenstat; 10-09-2019 at 05:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:44 PM
slingerfan slingerfan is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 687
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Top notch info Drumguy1988, KCDrumDad and Zenstat!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:15 PM
Drumguy1988 Drumguy1988 is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,894
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCDrumDad View Post
A couple of questions/comments -
* The highest serial number I have before the break in serial numbers is 1371641. How many drums do you have recorded above that and below your 1396XXX example?
* I have recorded 1501391 as the lowest example I have seen once the numbers started up again. I also have 1502610, 1502783, 1503322 and 1505538.
* You have an interesting theory. I will look at the information I have on the BO2 badges (pointed corner B/O badges with the circle R symbol) and see if they all have characteristics consistent with that time period.
The next # I have below the 1396XXX is 1358583. The one above it is the 1505641
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:17 PM
OddBall OddBall is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boston MA.
Posts: 6,150
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenstat View Post
Even nicer examples of the badges being talked about.

B Stock badge



Real BO2



Another Real BO2



Fake BO2





Are you over generalizing from too small a sample of photos taken in different light? See the examples above.

There are other differences between these badges so you don't have to rely on color. I've annotated the differences in the fake badge below:



which describe the same flaws as in the vistalite article. Just a second example because I find it helps to have more than one.

The B stock badge is different because it says MADE IN U.S.A. in the area for the serial number. Plus that area has a line around it as the BO4 does. The B stock badge isn't based on the BO2.
That was not my intent. I am under the impression that the darker
olive only existed after the 70's. Things noticeable from a distance, because you may not be close always are color tint and grommet placement.
__________________
It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:18 PM
Drumguy1988 Drumguy1988 is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,894
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCDrumDad View Post
A link to a nice article regarding fake Vistalites and the reproduction badge often seen on them.

http://www.vistalitedrum.com/article_fake_drums.htm
Do you think the Vistalite snare I posted is a Fake??? Or did I miss understand??

Last edited by Drumguy1988; 10-09-2019 at 07:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:21 PM
Drumguy1988 Drumguy1988 is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,894
Default Re: Ludwig blue/olive non serial # badge question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCDrumDad View Post
There is a companion bass drum with a no serial number badge available from the same seller.
I just saw it. Here it is.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-LUDWIG...oAAOSw8tZchUEK
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign