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  #1  
Old 02-13-2015, 11:09 AM
Hobbs Hobbs is online now
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Default K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

Request for value on an exceptional condition Istanbul, 1879 GRAMS. Apparently zero issues. Sizzle may be non-factory. Any help greatly appreciated!

Chris




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Last edited by Hobbs; 02-13-2015 at 11:19 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2015, 11:51 AM
vintagemore2000 vintagemore2000 is offline
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Default Re: K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

Looks to be the old stamp IIIc 1956-1957
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:59 AM
Hobbs Hobbs is online now
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Default Re: K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

Yes indeed, V. I've not had the privilege of dealing in K Istanbul or Constantinople cymbals - this would be the first. Unfamiliarity breeds nervousness in knowing value.

Owner's attesting to $2000+ essentially due to top condition. This is not what I'd go for, but confirmation from a few voices here would be helpful,

Chris
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YAMAHA Maple Custom NATURAL GLOSS 12/14/snare/18
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  #4  
Old 02-13-2015, 01:23 PM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs View Post
Yes indeed, V. I've not had the privilege of dealing in K Istanbul or Constantinople cymbals - this would be the first. Unfamiliarity breeds nervousness in knowing value.

Owner's attesting to $2000+ essentially due to top condition. This is not what I'd go for, but confirmation from a few voices here would be helpful,

Chris
I think $2000 for this 20" old K in the current market is quite high.
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  #5  
Old 02-13-2015, 03:12 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

I'm with Mark. Although walter gets those prices. If the seller goes to Maxwells to set his price he'll get the same idea of high value.

My records as part of my pricing project. Two different formats because I haven't converted over all the older records into the new format yet. *edit* I just noticed that in the first of these I used any line containing the string "old" and that matched several new stamps because the string "older new stamp" appeared. Now you know why I improved my format! Just consider the lines which say old and I'll replace the image in a moment. The new one has just 2 lines.





I'd suggest an opening offer of $1200 (a little lower than average of $1400 -- but that's just an opener for negotiations) and show him these images. The expected range seems to be $1000 - $1800 as a broad brush overview.

*edit* when I fixed the retrieval I updated the expected range to $1000 - $1800. True some go to $2200 but the expected range isn't about getting the extremes, it is about working out where most (80%) will sell for. Also I didn't point it out explicitly but the other factors affecting expected price are condition and weight. Lower weight commands higher price. 1879g is around the medium weight for these. There are a few really thin ones, and a few over 2000g. So bonus points for condition, but no bonus points for being 1600g - 1700g.
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Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here

Last edited by zenstat; 02-14-2015 at 02:07 AM. Reason: fixed retrieval in older format and updated figures
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Old 02-13-2015, 03:24 PM
Hobbs Hobbs is online now
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Default Re: K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

Wow, Steve (especially!), and Mark, thank you. I will let him know about the stats you've kindly offered. If you have any need for mostly vintage drums sales data I keep a very rough list and would happily email them to you.

The gist: I've a SKB kit o ebay he's wanting in exchange for the cymbal. Gut is his 2600-2800 valuation is on the stratospheric side of the scale (but I don't know, hence I'm here). He did reference Maxwell and another (perhaps Walter - whomever that is?).

Chris
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2015, 03:38 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

Sellers who would give you an inflated idea of value (unless you look at the whole market context) are walter (eBay), maxwells (online), hazelshould (online and eBay), classicvintagedrums (online). I know maxwells and hazelshould (gerry) and classicvintagedrums (bill maley) do it by having top quality, accurate descriptions including photos and sound files, and top customer service.

Walter1122 (or just Walter among friends) manages to get very high prices. I don't know how. And since I just monitor completed sales I can't see any negotiation/shenanigans which happen outside of eBay. Not saying anything against him, just that I don't know. He doesn't have sound files, so he's not keeping up with the times. The days of glowing verbal descriptions has passed...except for him.

Typical walter auction and pricing: item 291304349516

copy/paste the following excluding the initial P into your browser.

Phttp://www.ebay.com/itm/K-Istanbul-zildjian-RARE-c49-2b-20-OLD-STAMP-THIN-JAZZ-RIDE-EXCELLENT-WOBBLES-/291304349516

There are a few other sellers I might think of if I wasn't just typing fast off the top of me head.
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Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here

Last edited by zenstat; 02-13-2015 at 03:45 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2015, 03:45 PM
orangemi orangemi is offline
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Default Re: K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

Steve Maxwell has an Intermediate stamp 20" @ 1910 grams for $1595. Older stamps always demand higher prices.
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  #9  
Old 02-14-2015, 03:23 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangemi View Post
Steve Maxwell has an Intermediate stamp 20" @ 1910 grams for $1595. Older stamps always demand higher prices.
Both facts are true, although I'd say the Old Stamps tend to sell for higher prices than New Stamps or Intermediate Stamps (other factors such as: condition, weight, seller reputation, quality of ad being equal). I wouldn't demand because the distributions overlap. I have yet to actually estimate the factor for Old Stamp vs New vs Intermediate pricing because I'd like to have a bit more data.

And I'm really posting this in case my edit on my previous post with prices doesn't get spotted. I made a mistake on the older format record retrieval and that is now corrected. It changed the bottom of the range, but not my recommendation. And it still doesn't get you to a $2,600 to $2,800 valuation as the most likely estimate as far as I'm concerned. I gave a lowish starting value for negotiation, but that's me (as you can imagine I know rather a lot about pricing and consumer behavior and am a pretty canny buyer). Your decision will be informed by other factors concerning the trade.
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For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here

Last edited by zenstat; 02-14-2015 at 10:41 PM. Reason: typo
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2015, 12:03 AM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: K Zildjian ISTANBUL 20" Sizzle / 1950's ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenstat View Post
I'm with Mark. Although walter gets those prices. If the seller goes to Maxwells to set his price he'll get the same idea of high value.

My records as part of my pricing project. Two different formats because I haven't converted over all the older records into the new format yet. *edit* I just noticed that in the first of these I used any line containing the string "old" and that matched several new stamps because the string "older new stamp" appeared. Now you know why I improved my format! Just consider the lines which say old and I'll replace the image in a moment. The new one has just 2 lines.





I'd suggest an opening offer of $1200 (a little lower than average of $1400 -- but that's just an opener for negotiations) and show him these images. The expected range seems to be $1000 - $1800 as a broad brush overview.

*edit* when I fixed the retrieval I updated the expected range to $1000 - $1800. True some go to $2200 but the expected range isn't about getting the extremes, it is about working out where most (80%) will sell for. Also I didn't point it out explicitly but the other factors affecting expected price are condition and weight. Lower weight commands higher price. 1879g is around the medium weight for these. There are a few really thin ones, and a few over 2000g. So bonus points for condition, but no bonus points for being 1600g - 1700g.
I'm assuming your "prices" were the actual final sale prices, not the asking price. Correct?
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