Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > Vintage Cymbals

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 04-15-2013, 02:46 PM
OddBall OddBall is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boston MA.
Posts: 6,148
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

Well Bill Maley needs to think outside the box and stop put`n cymbals behind kits alone !i

Maybe think school or team bands and sound effects for TV and Radio which were very big in the Fifties too !i

I still think they are original and not meant for a HH pair !i

Small rivits and large rivits can be drlled for differently,...No ?
__________________
It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-15-2013, 03:38 PM
mlvibes mlvibes is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 766
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

Quote:
Originally Posted by OddBall View Post
Well Bill Maley needs to think outside the box and stop put`n cymbals behind kits alone !i

Maybe think school or team bands and sound effects for TV and Radio which were very big in the Fifties too !i

I still think they are original and not meant for a HH pair !i

Small rivits and large rivits can be drlled for differently,...No ?
Ha! Well, the thread was about hi hats, wasn't it? I agree though, factory rivets on a small crash or ride would be more likely than factory rivets on a bottom hat. I think when you said:

Quote:
On another note, in the fifties, drummers tended to have smaller HH cymbals.
...you may have meant "ride cymbals" or "crash cymbals," yeah? So there would be more of a likelihood of factory rivets as a stand-alone sizzle cymbal.

Also, factory Avedis rivets back then tended to be further from the edge, as in royal ace's pic. Even half-way between the bell and edge.

Lastly, cymbals intended for hats in the Trans stamp era were paper, paper thin, so that weight of 1110g means that that cymbal was most likely meant as a stand-alone or "band" cymbal, or part of an orchestral crash pair.

So, assuming it wasn't meant as a HH cymbal, when originally drilled the holes were either:

1.) Factory holes for rivets on a stand-alone cymbal.
2.) Non-factory holes for rivets on a stand-alone cymbal.
3.) Non-factory holes for rivets on a non-factory HH pair.
4.) Non-factory "air lock" vent holes on a non-factory HH pair.

Based on all of the cymbals I've ever come across, and the fact that they are tiny holes so close to the edge, I believe that #1 has the lowest chance of being true. But it's of course still possible, and I don't think we'll ever know for certain.

From inside the box,
Bill

Last edited by mlvibes; 04-15-2013 at 03:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-15-2013, 04:02 PM
mlayton mlayton is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,982
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

ive studied quite a bit of the avedis zildjian series(ads and such) that show which cymbals certain drummers were using at the time. i was very surprised to see several playing 16" hi hats in the 50's.

mike
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-15-2013, 06:22 PM
royal ace royal ace is offline
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 285
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

Bill,
As always, thanks for your perspective from "inside the box".

Ron
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-15-2013, 08:01 PM
OddBall OddBall is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boston MA.
Posts: 6,148
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

No, I meant HH. I`m not that old but still, I`m not refereing to celeb. I`m outside.

I`ll submit, factory order with small rivits because the 15 had six. or, Aftermarket.

I`m the guy with bad luck finding 14" A`s without them and find nothing but them.

The correct speculation is not certain.

So, I think they are, from Boston !i
__________________
It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:43 PM
royal ace royal ace is offline
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 285
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

Arrived today... the verdict is in!
1. They're gorgeous.. they play like a dream!
2. it's obvious from the wear on their inside edges they were used as hihats for a long time. Furthermore, I'm certain that the trans stamp was made to be a hi hat bottom.
2. It's reasonably certain the holes... of slightly differing size.... are neither factory drilled nor for rivets.

The rivets in the pics are factory from my 50s 18" A.

Ron
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0012.JPG
Views:	57
Size:	59.1 KB
ID:	56396   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0014.JPG
Views:	59
Size:	53.8 KB
ID:	56397  
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-17-2013, 10:05 PM
OddBall OddBall is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boston MA.
Posts: 6,148
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

Now that they are in your hand,...I don`t wanna call them factory looking like that. But still have holes. That looks like owner and pop rivits you buy at the hardware store !i

The factory rivits much larger !i
__________________
It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:36 AM
royal ace royal ace is offline
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 285
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

Quote:
Originally Posted by OddBall View Post
Now that they are in your hand,...I don`t wanna call them factory looking like that. But still have holes. That looks like owner and pop rivits you buy at the hardware store !i

The factory rivits much larger !i
"It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt". - A. Lincoln

As I stated previously, they are factory rivets from a 50s 18" A Zildjian. But of course, you were referring to rivits!
Ron
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-18-2013, 10:22 AM
OddBall OddBall is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boston MA.
Posts: 6,148
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

You can pick on my spelling all day, I wont let ya down. But I will certainly admit if I`m wrong. Maybe that`s why honest Abe got his head blown off and I haven`t !i
__________________
It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-18-2013, 10:34 AM
OddBall OddBall is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boston MA.
Posts: 6,148
Default Re: 50s Zildjian Hi-Hats

The fool is the one that drilled to let the air out !i
__________________
It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign