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  #61  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:07 PM
Klinger Klinger is offline
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Default Re: new "Vintage" cycmbals...

Listen with your ears, not the stamp or your eyes.

I'm still playing "old brass" and since I have accumulated some, I will until I die.

I sold off an absolutely horrid 22" ride that I had for 30 years from the 60s. It was from my first set of drums. I liked it, until I heard others, which got better and better every time I heard something else. Mine was a DUD!

I'm sure the guy who bought it got a real deal, because it was clean, no damage, had the original rubber stamp marking and the "right" logo stamp.

That and someday, maybe someone will prove with science and documentation that most of the stamp mythology is fact? If the factory doesn't know, how do we?

This is based on someone telling me that a cymbal that I bought in 1964 was from the middle 70s. And when I mentioned that I'd never had it leave my possession, I was told. "I was wrong about the date".

Listen with your ears and what you want the sound to be.
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  #62  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:23 AM
Ludwig-dude Ludwig-dude is offline
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Default Re: new "Vintage" cycmbals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klinger View Post
Listen with your ears, not the stamp or your eyes.

I'm still playing "old brass" and since I have accumulated some, I will until I die.

I sold off an absolutely horrid 22" ride that I had for 30 years from the 60s. It was from my first set of drums. I liked it, until I heard others, which got better and better every time I heard something else. Mine was a DUD!

I'm sure the guy who bought it got a real deal, because it was clean, no damage, had the original rubber stamp marking and the "right" logo stamp.

That and someday, maybe someone will prove with science and documentation that most of the stamp mythology is fact? If the factory doesn't know, how do we?

This is based on someone telling me that a cymbal that I bought in 1964 was from the middle 70s. And when I mentioned that I'd never had it leave my possession, I was told. "I was wrong about the date".

Listen with your ears and what you want the sound to be.
Couldn't have said it better myself.....
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  #63  
Old 01-08-2013, 07:30 AM
J!m J!m is offline
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Default Re: new "Vintage" cycmbals...

I checked out some more stuff yesterday, and mentioned the "Sweet ride" I played the other night, and after playing every ride (and good sized crash) in the store, the guy I was working with said the sweet ride might be exactly what I'm looking for. He mentioned every time one comes in, it sells very quickly.

I have seen them now and again, but never really played one until last Saturday, since the general opinion is new Zildjians are no good... I think, just like the old ones, there is good and bad from every era at Zildjian, so I am on the hunt for one- hopefully a good one.

I was also thinking about Wuhan cymbals. Not a lot of places carry them (well, beyond the china types) but they make a full line and they are very traditionally made. Does anyone have an opinion of them? The upside is you can get them very inexpensively, and they are B20 alloy, like the 'big boys'. Downside? I don't know- my china type from the 80's is doing just fine after years of pounding... Thoughts?
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Cobalt Blue Yamaha Recording Custom 20b-22b-8-10-12-13-15-16f-18f
Red Ripple '70's Yamaha D-20 20b-12-14f
Piano Black Yamaha Recording Custom Be-Bop kit 18b-10-14f
Snares:
Yamaha COS SDM5; Yamaha Cobalt Blue RC 5-1/2x14; Gretsch round badge WMP; 1972 Ludwig Acrolite; 1978 Ludwig Super Sensitive; Cobalt Blue one-off Montineri; Yamaha Oak (6X13!); DW collectors 5-1/2X14 maple; cheap 3.5X13 brass piccolo
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  #64  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:12 PM
SlingerLynn SlingerLynn is offline
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Default Re: new "Vintage" cycmbals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by J!m View Post
I checked out some more stuff yesterday, and mentioned the "Sweet ride" I played the other night, and after playing every ride (and good sized crash) in the store, the guy I was working with said the sweet ride might be exactly what I'm looking for. He mentioned every time one comes in, it sells very quickly.

I have seen them now and again, but never really played one until last Saturday, since the general opinion is new Zildjians are no good... I think, just like the old ones, there is good and bad from every era at Zildjian, so I am on the hunt for one- hopefully a good one.
If you find the right Sweet Ride, you will be very happy. As is the case with cymbals, some sound better than others. Mine is brilliant finish, which I feel focuses the stick. It's lighter than a lot of the others I've seen. Just give them a try, you'll find a good one.

Lynn
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I'm no guru, just a vintage drum junkie!

Psalm 150:5
1945 Slingerland RK sparkling gold pearl 26/13/14/16/early 50s 5.5x14 Krupa RK
1967 Slingerland green glass glitter 20/12/14/Hollywood Ace
60s Slingerland 24/13/16/7x14 project
24/13/16/7x14 project RKs
60s 5 & 6.5 Sound Kings
1942 7x14 WMP Krupa RK
1930s Slingerland Universal
1967 Ludwig Hollywood sparkling blue pearl 22/12/13/16
1967 Ludwig Supraphonic 400 & 402
1965 Ludwig Jazz Fest sparkling blue pearl
1923 Ludwig 5x14 NOB
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  #65  
Old 01-09-2013, 07:18 PM
J!m J!m is offline
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Default Re: new "Vintage" cycmbals...

I found one today (A 21" sweet ride) at GC in Manchester (see related post on the old Slingerlands I saw there too), but it didn't "speak" to me as the one I played the other night did. It could be the demo room they have, which may not be very flattering, but I didn't grab that today. The ride sound was good- not dark, but focused. The crash sound was not quite as good and the wash was a bit strong (but not offensively so). I could live with it for sure, but I'm looking for the one I LOVE.

what I DID grab however is a nasty looking, but great sounding set of K Custom Dark 13" High Hats. Now, I've demoed these hats before (usually 14") and NEVER heard a pair I wanted to buy (particularly at ~$400) but these were significantly less and they sound GOOD. I have 30 days to decide for sure, but I think these will be keepers. They appear to have been stored in a barn, as they are covered in green and have some cleaner spots where the rain drops apparently hit... Still have the paper labels under the bells, so I clearly saved them from an abusive home...

I'll probably give them a dish soap cleaning (at least) and make sure I still like them, but with either cymbal on top they sound really good to me. Go figure!
__________________
Cobalt Blue Yamaha Recording Custom 20b-22b-8-10-12-13-15-16f-18f
Red Ripple '70's Yamaha D-20 20b-12-14f
Piano Black Yamaha Recording Custom Be-Bop kit 18b-10-14f
Snares:
Yamaha COS SDM5; Yamaha Cobalt Blue RC 5-1/2x14; Gretsch round badge WMP; 1972 Ludwig Acrolite; 1978 Ludwig Super Sensitive; Cobalt Blue one-off Montineri; Yamaha Oak (6X13!); DW collectors 5-1/2X14 maple; cheap 3.5X13 brass piccolo
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  #66  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:32 PM
J!m J!m is offline
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Default Re: new "Vintage" cycmbals...

So a bit of an update:

Those 13" K Custom Dark hats are keepers for sure. I cleaned them with dish soap and a CLR/water solution (cleaned them without stripping ALL the 'patina' off) and they sound really good. I did find a flea bite, so perhaps dropping them was good for their sound... More on those later.

I brought those and all my rides (only three) to visit a friend who bought a used K Constantinople ride recently. I wanted to hear that K Con ride, and he was interested in my 20 and 22 ping rides. I also had "the beast" with me (old 22" A Zildjian ride from mid 50's or so if you're just tuning in), and a couple crashes (16 and 18 A thin crashes from the early 80's).

I have been using 'the beast' in my Drumgeon with a strip of painters tape on the bottom, and been pleased enough with it. You still can't crash it unless you play with aluminum baseball bats, but otherwise, it actually sounds OK that way in my room (which is rather live).

Set up in my friend's basement, which is a bit larger space and a bit less live (carpeting and sound panels on the walls) that beast sounded, well, like it had a big piece of tape on it. In his room, the beast sounded decent wide open (but it still has tsunami-grade wash and no possibility of crashing unless tossed out of a speeding pick-up truck) I played it (did I mention I brought my old D-20 kit along?) all day Sunday like that. My friend grabbed some mallets at one point and did a suspended cymbal roll on the beast and I had to stuff my fingers in my ears! It was painful!!

We both REALLY were digging the 13" K hats I picked up. He has old 2002 sound edge hats (nice) as well as some old 505? maybe hats that sounded pretty good as well, but when we switched kits (he had his round badge Gretch kit up) hearing the K hats from a distance further reinforced these as a sweet pair of hats. In spite of Zildjian's best efforts, good stuff still manages to sneak out once in a while!

Now, as for the K Con (22") ride, as I said to him after playing it every which way for a while: I could live with that ride and be quite happy. Considering it's 22" diameter, it actually crashed very well. I imagine a similar 20" would be even better in this regard, but it was nice. Drop the shoulder into it for some nice accents that don't get in the way of the ride pattern. Also versatile- play closer to the edge and you can hear where the thickness changes on this cymbal. Mid-bow is very 'pingy' but not ping-ride piercing, close to the edge gets VERY dark and mysterious. The bell cuts fine, but nothing like the bell of my 'beast' ride (which cuts depleted Uranium). I'd like to sample several of these rides, but I think I could find a nice one with time... We also noticed differing sticks changed the ride's character quite a bit. I play 747 oak nylon sticks and he plays 7a wood tips. As you might imagine, very different sounding! He had a pair of 7a nylon sticks and I really liked how those sounded on the K Con. I will not be switching to 7A's to make my cymbals sound better, but I have been looking for the 707 hickory nylon sticks as I think these will be a good 'transition' stick for me. A bit lighter and a bit bouncier in the shoulder... 7A's a just too spindly feeling for my hand size.

My D-20 kit held its own very well against the legendary round badge Gretch kit. He is using the rail consolette (not for long now I suspect- read on) and was getting frustrated with the choked sound of his 12. When he held it, it sounded wide open and sweet. On the rail, it sounded like it was filled with fresh mini-marshmallows... The mount was totally killing that drum! His 16" floor tom would put a lot of bass drums to shame, and it in fact actually had a lower pitch than his 20" kick batter head!

On my kit the rim-mounted 12 and stock-legged 14 floor tom were singing out so well, they drowned my bass drum out! Independently, the drums sounded good- bordering on great, but I have to open up that bass drum some more. I think the batter felt will be moved up to cover less of the bater head (which is an Emperor coated) which may do the trick. A resonant head without a huge hole will certainly help as well I'm sure...

A bit of banter, but possibly useful for those shopping for cymbals or wondering how an old Japanese kit can hold up to a legend... I think the old D-20 did just fine, and I have no plans to get rid of it any time soon!
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Cobalt Blue Yamaha Recording Custom 20b-22b-8-10-12-13-15-16f-18f
Red Ripple '70's Yamaha D-20 20b-12-14f
Piano Black Yamaha Recording Custom Be-Bop kit 18b-10-14f
Snares:
Yamaha COS SDM5; Yamaha Cobalt Blue RC 5-1/2x14; Gretsch round badge WMP; 1972 Ludwig Acrolite; 1978 Ludwig Super Sensitive; Cobalt Blue one-off Montineri; Yamaha Oak (6X13!); DW collectors 5-1/2X14 maple; cheap 3.5X13 brass piccolo
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  #67  
Old 04-01-2013, 10:40 PM
J!m J!m is offline
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Default Re: new "Vintage" cycmbals...

Ok we need an update here.

I have thoroughly enjoyed re-reading my posts as well as the intelligent responses from those with a broader palette of cymbals to choose from than I do.

But, I have been on the hunt for my 'new' cymbals, and am happy to report I found some good ones. Really good ones.

After falling in love with those great 13" K Custom Dark hats, I started looking into other cymbals from that line and made an interesting discovery. well, actually a couple discoveries:

The 20" ride from this line is quite good. Maybe a touch too much wash for "perfection" but I can ride it all day and it does not get out of control, and when I lay into it with the shoulder, it crashes nice and my continued ride pattern slowly and smoothly emerges like a semi coming over the mountain. Bell is great. So cutting you have to remember to not lay into it too hard. Ride it near the bell, across the bow it's fairly consistent, but that spot where the thickness changes is quickly apparent and quite useful. Turn the volume down by working out toward the edge, where it gets that K Con 'mysterious' sound. Very cool.

Crashes from this line are limited to one size- 18". I tried several from 15" up and all the small ones sounded gongy and/or clangy to me. the 18's are sweet. I did not hear a 'bad' 18, but decided on one I really like. Looking at them I noticed the bell on the 18 is significantly larger than the 17 and smaller, which all have a much smaller bell. The 18 makes a nice, but very sensitive, left hand ride and that big bell really sings out as an accent or, as a bell when riding. The blend of this crash with the 20" ride is very good as well. You can delineate another cymbal but it is very complimentary to the ride's shoulder crash.

Also, as part of this experiment, I picked up a K Custom Session Crash. I had only seen one before the one I got, but the one I got and the first one both sounded VERY nice. Short story: I bought the K Custom Dark and K Session Crash both (both 18") with the thought of keeping the 'one' that really did it for me.

Well, that did not pan out as expected, as I love them both. The Dark is on the left of the D-20 and is a spectacular crash and left hand ride. The Session is on the right of the ride and it blends very well with the others too; but further, it is a true 'bridge' cymbal that fills the gap between my 80's vintage 18" thin crash and the 18" K Custom Dark crash. In English, this means I could load up my big kit with my A's the session and the Dark and they all can work together. It is not a total shifting of gears from K's to A's, and the moral of the story is: I found the sound I wanted in an unexpected place. As I said earlier, I never liked the Custom anything from Zildjian, and I found that you really have to look/listen hard to find the wheat among the chaff. I spent several months doing that, and I'm happy to report that I have some new cymbals, that happen to be new.

Check 'em out some time... I think you might be pleasantly surprised.

PS as a side note, I wanted to give an honorable mention to Paiste's Signature line. Those are sweet too, and if not for those crusty old high hats I stumbled across, I might be a Paiste player right now.
__________________
Cobalt Blue Yamaha Recording Custom 20b-22b-8-10-12-13-15-16f-18f
Red Ripple '70's Yamaha D-20 20b-12-14f
Piano Black Yamaha Recording Custom Be-Bop kit 18b-10-14f
Snares:
Yamaha COS SDM5; Yamaha Cobalt Blue RC 5-1/2x14; Gretsch round badge WMP; 1972 Ludwig Acrolite; 1978 Ludwig Super Sensitive; Cobalt Blue one-off Montineri; Yamaha Oak (6X13!); DW collectors 5-1/2X14 maple; cheap 3.5X13 brass piccolo
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  #68  
Old 04-20-2013, 01:01 PM
SlingerLynn SlingerLynn is offline
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Location: Biloxi, MS
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Default Re: new "Vintage" cycmbals...

J!m,

I'm glad to hear - or read - that you found your new cymbals. The K Custom line has some real gems. I also have been very tempted a few times to buy the 18" Session crash at my local store. Anyway, congratulations!

By the way, the Paiste Signature line is quite nice. A friend of mine played the Full crashes several years ago and I remember them having a nice sound...crazy high prices, though.

Lynn
__________________
I'm no guru, just a vintage drum junkie!

Psalm 150:5
1945 Slingerland RK sparkling gold pearl 26/13/14/16/early 50s 5.5x14 Krupa RK
1967 Slingerland green glass glitter 20/12/14/Hollywood Ace
60s Slingerland 24/13/16/7x14 project
24/13/16/7x14 project RKs
60s 5 & 6.5 Sound Kings
1942 7x14 WMP Krupa RK
1930s Slingerland Universal
1967 Ludwig Hollywood sparkling blue pearl 22/12/13/16
1967 Ludwig Supraphonic 400 & 402
1965 Ludwig Jazz Fest sparkling blue pearl
1923 Ludwig 5x14 NOB
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  #69  
Old 04-20-2013, 04:33 PM
J!m J!m is offline
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Default Re: new "Vintage" cycmbals...

Hey Lynn, thanks!

Sorry I haven't been around much these days but life is crazy as we all know.


Anyway, I will be attending the CT drum show tomorrow, if you happen to be around (I don't remember where in the world you are located).

Paiste's in general are expensive, but they absolutely have the market cornered on "consistent" sound. I am really impressed with that aspect of Swiss quality control.

OK off to the PM's because I have a few it seems...
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Cobalt Blue Yamaha Recording Custom 20b-22b-8-10-12-13-15-16f-18f
Red Ripple '70's Yamaha D-20 20b-12-14f
Piano Black Yamaha Recording Custom Be-Bop kit 18b-10-14f
Snares:
Yamaha COS SDM5; Yamaha Cobalt Blue RC 5-1/2x14; Gretsch round badge WMP; 1972 Ludwig Acrolite; 1978 Ludwig Super Sensitive; Cobalt Blue one-off Montineri; Yamaha Oak (6X13!); DW collectors 5-1/2X14 maple; cheap 3.5X13 brass piccolo
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