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  #31  
Old 12-12-2019, 02:06 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

Nobody used to research all the science of how certain mounts affected the sound of a drum back then. It was more a matter of positioning.

And, actually, some kits that have the old mounts, sound great when the resonant frequencies between the mounted tom and bass drum start to match up because they are connected to each other more directly. I have experienced that phenomenon many times with "open" (unmuffled) bop kits. The whole thing starts to vibrate!

Generally, modern drums have more of the long sustaining resonance than a lot vintage drums do comparatively...but the warmer, rounder tones usually are associated with vintage drums...Again, generally-speaking. That has to do with a lot of things, though....not just the mounts.
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  #32  
Old 12-12-2019, 02:08 PM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

You're not doing something wrong. The drum on its mount with an Ambassador head sounds the way the drum builders thought it should sound. Holding the tom drum while striking it is going to sound different from sitting it on a snare drum stand and hitting it. If you wear your bass drum on a sling, and play it with marching bass drum sticks in a marching band, it's going to sound different than it sounds when sitting on the floor being struck by the beater of a foot pedal. Once again, there is no right or wrong. It's all a matter of different sounds from which to choose. I know a person very well who has owned countless cars and trucks. Guess what? The car makers don't know how to build cars and trucks that perform the way he thinks they should perform.
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  #33  
Old 12-12-2019, 02:09 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickmues View Post
thanks for the replies gentlemen.

I have a Slingerland set, a Gretch set, and a Ludwig set. All have rail mounting hardware
for the hanging tom (one only). I have Ambassador heads on each. They all choke the
sound and by that I mean it is totally different than if I strike the drum while holding the tom-tom by hand. If I am doing something wrong, I'd love to understand how to remedy it!
Set the kit up in an empty room with a hard floor and you will hear a completely different sound.

I have a newly remodeled basement room that used to be my practice area....It was just an unfinished concrete floor. But, since it's been remodeled, we put a nice wool rug on the floor and now my once-lovely resonant bongos sound completely dead.
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  #34  
Old 12-12-2019, 02:35 PM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyringo View Post
Here they are, my very first Camco kit and an Oaklawn to boot. The kit has been refinished, t-rods, claws, floor tom legs and bottom tom hoops are not original, it's also missing the mufflers, but it's an Oaklawn Camco. The shells, edges, lugs and badges are all in great condition.
It has good coated Ambassadors on top and bottom of toms, the kick has a coated Powerstroke, just need to replace kick front head and get a Camco logo sticker.
I can't wait to get them to my rehearsal room.
8x12,14x14,14x20
Congratulations. Although they are refinished with non-original hardware, which will likely affect the resale value and may be a non-starter for some collectors, they are still Camco shells in great condition with the original lugs. Some purists may scoff at your purchase, but I am more of a player than a collector, so in the end how they, tune, respond, and sound is most important to me.
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Last edited by BosLover; 12-12-2019 at 02:53 PM.
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  #35  
Old 12-12-2019, 02:45 PM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by leedybdp View Post
Drum mounting hardware that was used back when those drums were built were factored in to how the drums were designed to sound with the most commonly used drum heads at that time. So, what sounds "choked" to you is the intended sound that the drum makers built into their drums. What you want to hear is something DIFFERENT from the original sound. There is no right or wrong about this. You either like the original sound or want to change it for something different.
I've been saying that for years, but most younger drummers still don't seems to get it.
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  #36  
Old 12-12-2019, 02:45 PM
johnnyringo johnnyringo is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

I doubt your doing anything wrong, I've also had toms that had more resonance when off the mount, that's one reason I'd choose to use a snare stand to hold the tom. For whatever reason, I don't have that issue with either of my current kits.
I've noticed that if you tune the tom higher and use the mount, it will resonate more, that happened with my Leedy kit. If I tuned it low it would sound dead, but when I tuned it higher it resonated more while on the mount. Try tuning the toms a little higher.
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  #37  
Old 12-12-2019, 03:22 PM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyringo View Post
I doubt your doing anything wrong, I've also had toms that had more resonance when off the mount, that's one reason I'd choose to use a snare stand to hold the tom. For whatever reason, I don't have that issue with either of my current kits.
I've noticed that if you tune the tom higher and use the mount, it will resonate more, that happened with my Leedy kit. If I tuned it low it would sound dead, but when I tuned it higher it resonated more while on the mount. Try tuning the toms a little higher.
Back in the day tom resonance just wasn't a big issue. Remember, that back then all those drums also had built-in mufflers which were used to varying degrees by a lot of drummers. Today those mufflers are generally no longer in favor. But even today, my son's favorite Ludwig bop kit, built in 2006, has a rigidly mounted 12 in tom and sounds terrific when he gigs.

I started playing as a young teen in 1959. I knew of relatively few drummers that mounted their small toms on snare stands. Most who did mount them on stands did it to open up the sound of the bass drum and to eliminate the stress on the bass drum shell of a moving and vibrating tom mounted rigidly to it. It wasn't until many years later that I became aware of specialized mounts to allow the bass drum and toms to resonate more freely and independently. Being raised on the sound of earlier drums, I often felt that the more modern mounts resulted in too much uncontrolled resonance for jazz and big band use. To make up for it today, companies now have specialized gels and rings you can put on your heads, but which are effectively just modern mufflers that are less convenient to use.
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Last edited by BosLover; 12-12-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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  #38  
Old 12-12-2019, 04:47 PM
johnnyringo johnnyringo is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

Quote:
Originally Posted by BosLover View Post
Back in the day tom resonance just wasn't a big issue. Remember, that back then all those drums also had built-in mufflers which were used to varying degrees by a lot of drummers. Today those mufflers are generally no longer in favor. But even today, my son's favorite Ludwig bop kit, built in 2006, has a rigidly mounted 12 in tom and sounds terrific when he gigs.

I started playing as a young teen in 1959. I knew of relatively few drummers that mounted their small toms on snare stands. Most who did mount them on stands did it to open up the sound of the bass drum and to eliminate the stress on the bass drum shell of a moving and vibrating tom mounted rigidly to it. It wasn't until many years later that I became aware of specialized mounts to allow the bass drum and toms to resonate more freely and independently. Being raised on the sound of earlier drums, I often felt that the more modern mounts resulted in too much uncontrolled resonance for jazz and big band use. To make up for it today, companies now have specialized gels and rings you can put on your heads, but which are effectively just modern mufflers that are less convenient to use.
I've used snare stands for ease of setup or if the rail mount was not holding at gigs. Some kits didn't even have a rail, so I had to use a snare stand, I will not hang a vintage tom off a cymbal stand, especially a 13, I use to hang a 10" tom when I played modern kits.
The sharper bearing edges are the main reason modern kits have more resonance, I think everyone knows that.
Btw, I haven't confirmed that my Camco has been refinished.
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  #39  
Old 12-12-2019, 07:54 PM
markrocks68 markrocks68 is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

COOL!
awesome set man!
Still need a Camco. on the list down the road for me
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  #40  
Old 12-12-2019, 08:18 PM
johnnyringo johnnyringo is offline
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Default Re: My Christmas Present

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Originally Posted by markrocks68 View Post
COOL!
awesome set man!
Still need a Camco. on the list down the road for me
They're not easy to find and they're pricey, even re-wrapped kits are bringing close to 2 grand.
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