Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > Vintage Drums

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-11-2019, 04:41 PM
steff steff is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 110
Default Re: Vintage ends

Quote:
Originally Posted by leedybdp View Post
Once again, I'll state that "vintage" is a rather meaningless term to categorize drums as to their collectibility or desirability. I prefer to delineate the categories of drums or many other things by the era in which they were produced. Vintage is intended to identify the year in which a particular bottle of WINE was made. That's wine--not drums or cars or pottery. The "vint" refers to vines of grapes. There are Civil War era drums, Victorian era drums, Jazz era drums, Pre-World War Two era drums, Big Band era 1930's--1940's drums, mid 20th century drums from the 1950's-1960's, and the eras following these. In my opinion, if you insist on using the word vintage, that word should be immediately followed by a specific year such as vintage 1953 Slingerland or vintage 1989 Tama.

"vintage" enters as a common linguistic term to identify still usable objects of an era immediately prior to ours, of some interest in design, performance or for reasons of pure nostalgia, an object that does not interest anyone remains trash even if old, I'll have to become "ancient" to end up in some museum

However the forum is called vdf and we do not talk about wine!
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-11-2019, 04:56 PM
steff steff is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 110
Default Re: Vintage ends

the question is just this, we can say that today is a new drum era compared to the 80s? I think the answer is NO! there is no any difference, so should not talk about vintage as they did in the 80s 90s when could appreciate a significant difference with the production of previous years, thin shells with lute manufacturing wood, brass hoops, heavy hardware, etc.

the production of drums should change enough to be able to identify any difference with those from the 80s up to today, so as to consider them from an earlier era, something substantial must change!

Last edited by steff; 01-11-2019 at 05:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:55 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,064
Default Re: Vintage ends

Quote:
Originally Posted by BosLover View Post
I didn't mean to imply that it was your subjectivity alone any more than its my subjectivity alone with regard to my feelings about modern A. Zildjian cymbals. My overall point is that arbitrary cut-off dates defining what are and what are not vintage drums are, for the most part, subjective without a defineable metric.
But it's not arbitrary. The delineators aren't selected from drawing timelines from a hat. They are determined by what happened, historically. When free trade came about, it changed drum manufacturing from being something that had formerly been friendly competition among the Big Four American companies, into cutthroat competition with the rest of the world. You can bet there were a LOT of nervous boardroom meetings at Ludwig and Slingerland when American drummers started buying Yamaha drums, instead! That's not arbitrary. It's historically-traceable and, thus, very relevant to determining a timeline that drum collectors observe now. The metric will obviously have to be adjusted and added-to as time goes on and collector's criteria change. Timeframes are essential in determining collectibility and timeframes are also tied to historical events -like a drastic change in manufacturing practices due to an influx of foreign competition.
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:43 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,064
Default Re: Vintage ends

Exactly, steff! This forum is called the "Vintage Drum Forum". I think we already kinda know what we mean when we use the term. And, if some of us use the term in a slightly different way, then so be it! I still know what everyone means and I reckon so do most of us who come here, specifically, for the reason that this forum focuses on what is generally-accepted as older drums that aren't made anymore. But, instead of calling it the "Older Drums That Aren't Made Anymore Forum", we just settle for "Vintage Drum Forum".

It's like, come on....we already know all this stuff, right?
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:59 PM
steff steff is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 110
Default Re: Vintage ends

However even the barrels to store wine are very similar to our drum, it is a moment to be wrong!
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:26 PM
BosLover BosLover is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 1,068
Default Re: Vintage ends

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
But it's not arbitrary. The delineators aren't selected from drawing timelines from a hat. They are determined by what happened, historically. When free trade came about, it changed drum manufacturing from being something that had formerly been friendly competition among the Big Four American companies, into cutthroat competition with the rest of the world. You can bet there were a LOT of nervous boardroom meetings at Ludwig and Slingerland when American drummers started buying Yamaha drums, instead! That's not arbitrary. It's historically-traceable and, thus, very relevant to determining a timeline that drum collectors observe now. The metric will obviously have to be adjusted and added-to as time goes on and collector's criteria change. Timeframes are essential in determining collectibility and timeframes are also tied to historical events -like a drastic change in manufacturing practices due to an influx of foreign competition.
Just because that earlier dynamic may have changed in no way means that drums created at a later date lose the right to be called vintage one day. Vintage is a subjective term. Based on age, quality, availability and desirability anything can be defined as vintage if there is a large enough audience which subjectively believes it to be so. Drummers 50 years from now will make up their own minds as to what vintage is, and it may be based on different criteria than you are suggesting. .
__________________
Mark
BosLover
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:23 PM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,064
Default Re: Vintage ends

There will most definitely be more vintage drums as time progresses. As of now, the application of the term is in reference to older drums that aren't made anymore under former manufacturing methods. That's probably not the exact proper definition, either....but it's one that most people who collect drums, accept. There are some gray areas, but in general, most people who use the term "vintage" when it comes to drums, know what is being talked about.
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God

Last edited by O-Lugs; 01-11-2019 at 11:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:59 AM
BosLover BosLover is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 1,068
Default Re: Vintage ends

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
There will most definitely be more vintage drums as time progresses. As of now, the application of the term is in reference to older drums that aren't made anymore under former manufacturing methods. That's probably not the exact proper definition, either....but it's one that most people who collect drums, accept. There are some gray areas, but in general, most people who use the term "vintage" when it comes to drums, know what is being talked about.
Yes I agree with regards to now, but that may likely change at some future date 25 years or more from now with a significantly different audience than today. They may remember fondly the drums of their youth from the early 2000's, and the kits used by their favorite drummers or bands .
__________________
Mark
BosLover
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:08 AM
steff steff is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 110
Default Re: Vintage ends

subdividing the eras by type of drums we will have the following scheme

- the ancient drums that from artistic representations we know exist at least from 1200 to 1900, which are wood tied with ropes and guts, I have not done any research but probably these drums have remained unaltered since b.C. times, at some point the snare wires has been inserted, but I do not know in what period, we are talking about "Ancient" museum objects

- then there are the first drums that replaced the strings with the metal hardware, we are talking about the first 20 years of 1900, are the drums defined "Old"

- finally we find the first double-tension drums, which compared to our era are definable "Vintage" because they precede it, and goes from about 1920 to 1970, are characterized by traditional thin-layer shells, and heavy hardware in noble metal (brass)

- lastly we find the drums of our era (1980-today), which for this reason are not yet definable "vintage", are characterized by the need to play along with electric amplification, the volume is most important of everything and developed on plastic skins, until today they can not yet be called "vintage" because they are completely current

this is just my quick analysis to make a minimum point of the speech
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 01-12-2019, 02:55 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,064
Default Re: Vintage ends

Quote:
Originally Posted by BosLover View Post
Yes I agree with regards to now, but that may likely change at some future date 25 years or more from now with a significantly different audience than today. They may remember fondly the drums of their youth from the early 2000's, and the kits used by their favorite drummers or bands .
Yep, could be. And, by then, what is called "vintage", now, will become "antique".

AntiqueDrumForum....anyone?
__________________
"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign