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  #1  
Old 12-01-2017, 08:49 AM
steff steff is offline
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Default Fake old k for sale

warning all these OLD K certainly fake for sale :

2x zildjian old k rides 20"

https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436559


zildjian old k rides 21"

https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436574


zildjian old k ride 22"

https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436575


zildjian old k ride 21"

https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436579


Zildjian old k hh14"

https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436557


all sold by the same seller ... I contacted him says the origin is uncertain but nice cymbals ...
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2017, 11:46 AM
grantro grantro is offline
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Cool Re: Fake old k for sale

How do they "fake" these cymbals? Do they stamp no name cymbals within the weight ranges or something?

Cheers
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1980`s Ludwig Coliseum Piano Black 8x14 snare
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2017, 12:58 PM
hardbat hardbat is offline
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Default Re: Fake old k for sale

Amazing. The first two would be hard to distinguish based on the cymbal itself, but the stamp fails under scrutiny. The last three are jokes - they don't even look like good Chinese cymbals. The stamps on the last two aren't even close. Some day these counterfeits could make it increasingly difficult to discern real from fake -- just like the antique market in China. The first two here are getting close. Thanks for outing them.
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2017, 01:08 PM
steff steff is offline
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Default Re: Fake old k for sale

These

2x zildjian old k rides 20"
https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436559

zildjian old k rides 21"
https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436574

look carefully, they have the writing ZILOJIAN with O !


These

zildjian old k ride 22"
https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436575

Zildjian old k hh14"
https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436557

missing the half moon, it is impossible that a so rare printing error he has three cymbals, the hat is artificially corroded with chlore


These

zildjian old k ride 21"
https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/disp...nnonce=1436579

has the stamp &Cie Constantinople (early 1900s), size 21", would be the holy grail of the all cymbals, but the shape does not match in any way the bell is pressed not hand made, also the cymbal is perfect round looks like an Agop manufactured yesterday


7 cymbals all fake and artificially aged

Last edited by steff; 12-01-2017 at 04:50 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2017, 01:41 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: Fake old k for sale

The zilOjian fakes have been around for some years. Here's one from eBay in 2013:









It was from France as these new examples are.

Back then they appeared to be Turkish made cymbals stamped with a trademark to make them seem like real old Ks. But the stamp didn't pass close inspection, and neither did the production clues like hammering and lathing. These might date from the same time, or they might represent a new outbreak. I haven't seen fakes of the Intermediate trademark nor the Old K Constantinople trademark before.

If you search this forum for fake old Ks you find the original posts on these. Some links and photos are gone, some remain.

2010:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/show...ght=fake+old+k

2011:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=22370

2012:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=28923

2013:

the zilOjian thread with the French eBay one:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=37012

2014:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=45068
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=44575
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=43827

2015:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=50046

I've added these new ones to my archive of fakes. I guess if the situation worsens I should up the priority to add a section to my Which K Stamp? tool on how to spot fakes which does a detailed comparison of the real trademarks and the fake trademarks as a public service.

There is money to be made in faking the trademarks because it can add hundreds or even a thousand dollars to the price of an otherwise ordinary Turkish made cymbal. I don't have any previous evidence of Chinese sourced cymbals being treated in this way, although that doesn't mean it isn't happening.
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Last edited by zenstat; 12-01-2017 at 08:29 PM. Reason: earlier threads
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2017, 04:17 PM
grantro grantro is offline
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Cool Re: Fake old k for sale

Thanks guys!! I`ve learned something today...

Cheers
__________________
1976 Ludwig Mach 4 Thermogloss 26-18-14-14sn
1971 Ludwig Classic Bowling Ball OBP 22-16-14-13
1978 Ludwig Stainless 22-22-18-16-14-13-12 c/w 6-8-10-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-24 concert toms
1960's Stewart Peacock Pearl 20-16-12-14sn
1980`s Ludwig Coliseum Piano Black 8x14 snare
1973 Rogers Superten 5x14 & 6.5x14 COS snares
1954 Rogers Classmate 4x13 snare
1970`s John Grey Capri Aquamarine Sparkle 5x14 snare
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2017, 12:31 PM
steff steff is offline
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Default Re: Fake old k for sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenstat View Post
cut/

There is money to be made in faking the trademarks because it can add hundreds or even a thousand dollars to the price of an otherwise ordinary Turkish made cymbal. I don't have any previous evidence of Chinese sourced cymbals being treated in this way, although that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

indeed, if someone is able to faithfully reproduce the old k would do well to put their name and sell many item in accordance with the law as Roberto Spizzichino did, rather than sell a few item counterfeits that is more difficult
and risking with the law, those first new "zilojian" seem very well maked and look like the Chinese pangs that are seen on Ebay, they all seem to be made by hand and not pressed

must also feel them as they play because in the end what matters is not what it looks like but the quality from the bronze alloy, which from the old K still nobody has ever succeeded to reproduce
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2017, 10:59 AM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: Fake old k for sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenstat View Post
The zilOjian fakes have been around for some years. Here's one from eBay in 2013:









It was from France as these new examples are.

Back then they appeared to be Turkish made cymbals stamped with a trademark to make them seem like real old Ks. But the stamp didn't pass close inspection, and neither did the production clues like hammering and lathing. These might date from the same time, or they might represent a new outbreak. I haven't seen fakes of the Intermediate trademark nor the Old K Constantinople trademark before.

If you search this forum for fake old Ks you find the original posts on these. Some links and photos are gone, some remain.

2010:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/show...ght=fake+old+k

2011:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=22370

2012:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=28923

2013:

the zilOjian thread with the French eBay one:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=37012

2014:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=45068
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=44575
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=43827

2015:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=50046

I've added these new ones to my archive of fakes. I guess if the situation worsens I should up the priority to add a section to my Which K Stamp? tool on how to spot fakes which does a detailed comparison of the real trademarks and the fake trademarks as a public service.

There is money to be made in faking the trademarks because it can add hundreds or even a thousand dollars to the price of an otherwise ordinary Turkish made cymbal. I don't have any previous evidence of Chinese sourced cymbals being treated in this way, although that doesn't mean it isn't happening.
The photos you attached actually look like pretty decent cymbals. I wonder what they actually are and how they sound. I also find it odd that they go to so much trouble to reproduce old K stamps but include such a silly error as the "D" being replaced with an "O". I could see that happening if this was done in Asia where the subtleties of the shapes of Roman alphabet characters may not be as obvious as they would be in Europe. I also suppose some enterprising, larcenous and experienced cymbalsmith in Turkey with the skill and equipment to make decent looking cymbals could be faking the stamps.
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Last edited by BosLover; 12-03-2017 at 11:21 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2017, 09:50 AM
bonzoleum bonzoleum is offline
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Default Re: Fake old k for sale

I wouldn't surprised if very, very hard to spot Old K fakes start showing up here in droves (if they aren't already here). With all the Turkish style B20 cymbals being made by numerous manufacturers (here, in Turkey and in China) combined with the huge prices of the originals, it easily could happen.
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2017, 11:28 AM
Gilnar Gilnar is offline
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Default Re: Fake old k for sale

The typo in "Zildjian" might be an attempt to dodge possible lawsuits?
Like the Abidas sneakers...

I'd really like to hear these cymbals. They look very well made.
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