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  #21  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:06 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

Ok, my apologies on the badge dating....but.....honestly, that's just a side issue to the problems this kit, anyway.

The OP was sold a kit that he thinks is supposed to be some kind of mahogany kit. But, it's really just a group of 3-ply Ludwig shells that someone refinished in a mahogany stain and/or white spray paint. Ludwig never stained the interiors of their shells and bearing edges. By 1972, they shells would have been clear maple with a sealer.
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  #22  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:08 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

If the forum's badge dating list is incorrect, then it would probably be a good idea to update some stuff, since this website is often used to reference this information. I've always used the forum's dating list, anyway....apparently it's been incorrect....dang....That's kind of embarrassing, actually.
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Last edited by O-Lugs; 08-17-2019 at 10:11 AM.
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:30 AM
OddBall OddBall is online now
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Default Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
No. That's maple with a mahogany-ish color stain over it. The grain pattern is maple. Mahogany grain has a stringy, undulating -almost iridescent grain. Trust me on this. I have worked with both types of these woods and the grain pattern is nowhere even close to any kind of mahogany. It's absolutely maple. The interiors are stained and the bearing edges are stained! End of story. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news and all that....but...
Well we both can agree this kit is re-finished. The hoops look to be Maple, that tight squarish grain. The shell as well could be a stained Maple, I have no reason to say it is though. It's not in my hand. I'm not a big Ludwig guy. But I've seen several types of Mahogany in my trade and it has several grains as well.

For instance, this Mahogany grain looks like Pine to me, But I assure you, it's not.
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  #24  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:34 AM
slingerfan slingerfan is offline
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Default Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
If the forum's badge dating list is incorrect, then it would probably be a good idea to update some stuff, since this website is often used to reference this information. I've always used the forum's dating list, anyway....apparently it's been incorrect....dang....That's kind of embarrassing, actually.
Addressing this issue can be quite complicated and would require a thread all to itself. Overall the Vintage Drum Guide is a wonderful resource but the info is not all 100% correct. It is a good starting point to open discussions and spur further research. Suffice to say the moderators/owners of VDG have valid reasons for not updating to new info or removing older info. The good news is there are forum members actively engaged in new and ongoing research. There is some amazingly detailed work going on over at the Vintage Cymbal Forum right now. They too are dealing with these very issues. Check it out.

Last edited by slingerfan; 08-17-2019 at 11:37 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #25  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:07 PM
Dag Aanensen Norway Dag Aanensen Norway is offline
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Default Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

So my conclusion is:

This is a de-wrapped and re-finished 3-ply maple kit with mahagony like stained color over it.
A poor job on the interior side, especially the white spray paint on the 12 and 13 toms. To me it looks good on the outside and will remain a player kit, never a collector kit.

The only good news buying this kit is that the Supra-Phonic that came with it ( a 1965 Supra-Phonic with Keystone badge with R, Serialnumber : 167602 / Baseball bat tone control with white felt / COB hoops / P-83 Snare Throw-off ) had NO PITTING whatsoever.

So I will keep the snare and re-sell the shell pack for what it is.

Thanks for your help to identify this kit.
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  #26  
Old 08-18-2019, 08:40 AM
OddBall OddBall is online now
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Default Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag Aanensen Norway View Post
So my conclusion is:

This is a de-wrapped and re-finished 3-ply maple kit with mahagony like stained color over it.
A poor job on the interior side, especially the white spray paint on the 12 and 13 toms. To me it looks good on the outside and will remain a player kit, never a collector kit.

The only good news buying this kit is that the Supra-Phonic that came with it ( a 1965 Supra-Phonic with Keystone badge with R, Serialnumber : 167602 / Baseball bat tone control with white felt / COB hoops / P-83 Snare Throw-off ) had NO PITTING whatsoever.

So I will keep the snare and re-sell the shell pack for what it is.

Thanks for your help to identify this kit.

Not much gets by these luddy guys. I gave benefit of doubt, others simply know better.

That's why you come here.
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  #27  
Old 08-18-2019, 11:09 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slingerfan View Post
Addressing this issue can be quite complicated and would require a thread all to itself. Overall the Vintage Drum Guide is a wonderful resource but the info is not all 100% correct. It is a good starting point to open discussions and spur further research. Suffice to say the moderators/owners of VDG have valid reasons for not updating to new info or removing older info. The good news is there are forum members actively engaged in new and ongoing research. There is some amazingly detailed work going on over at the Vintage Cymbal Forum right now. They too are dealing with these very issues. Check it out.
I can't imagine what reasons for not updating and correcting incorrect information on a website like this would be, but I'm going to stop trying to help people with this stuff if the reference information, here, is going to turn out wrong. People looking for help will stop coming here if we give them wrong answers. I hope there is a way to update this stuff so we can maintain our reputation as the most legitimate source for information about vintage drums!
Glad to hear VCF is doing well. I'll most certainly check it out.
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  #28  
Old 08-18-2019, 11:10 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dag Aanensen Norway View Post
So my conclusion is:

This is a de-wrapped and re-finished 3-ply maple kit with mahagony like stained color over it.
A poor job on the interior side, especially the white spray paint on the 12 and 13 toms. To me it looks good on the outside and will remain a player kit, never a collector kit.

The only good news buying this kit is that the Supra-Phonic that came with it ( a 1965 Supra-Phonic with Keystone badge with R, Serialnumber : 167602 / Baseball bat tone control with white felt / COB hoops / P-83 Snare Throw-off ) had NO PITTING whatsoever.

So I will keep the snare and re-sell the shell pack for what it is.

Thanks for your help to identify this kit.
Nice snare, Dan. Hey, man....don't sweat that kit. It happens to all of us. We all have been fooled by one thing or another. Peace!
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  #29  
Old 08-18-2019, 04:34 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: Identification...Ludwig Thermogloss Over Natural Mahogany?

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
I can't imagine what reasons for not updating and correcting incorrect information on a website like this would be, but I'm going to stop trying to help people with this stuff if the reference information, here, is going to turn out wrong. People looking for help will stop coming here if we give them wrong answers. I hope there is a way to update this stuff so we can maintain our reputation as the most legitimate source for information about vintage drums!
Glad to hear VCF is doing well. I'll most certainly check it out.
Slingerfan meant the Vintage Cymbal forum of this site not some different site. This thread is a good example of decade out of data info and the reluctance of some people to move on.

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=19569

Of course all the old posts are still there and they never move on. This is why I've given up on a discussion forum as the best style for presenting well curated and summarized information.

The catalog and price list scans on the sister sites of VDF are correct data (provided the years are attributed correctly which they aren't always). The rest of the summary information and interpretation can be a decade or so out of date. The cymbals info on sister site site vintage cymbal guide

http://www.vintagecymbalguide.com/

is sparse but at least the fact that very little is there means that very little is misleading. The most misleading is alas the most commonly sought brand

http://www.vintagecymbalguide.com/zi..._stamps_a.html

where unique terminology has confused a number of people. Having chosen to use Type 1, 2, 3, 4 for what we call Pre Trans, Trans, Large Stamps, and Small Stamps. Transitional trademark stamps themselves have 4 Types adding to terminology confusion. So people unfamiliar with current terminology mention these Type numbers and people who are familiar with the current research and terminology just get confused.

In case you start to get confused, compare this to my work

http://black.net.nz/avedis.html

which is itself outdated and in the process of replacement by Cymbal Wiki (in my signature). Having started this process I can sympathize with web site owners who don't want to keep things up to date. It is a big task. I've pretty much given up posting here so I can concentrate on building the new wiki.
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Last edited by zenstat; 08-18-2019 at 04:44 PM.
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