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Forum: Vintage Cymbals Yesterday, 11:16 PM
Replies: 15
Views: 192
Posted By zenstat
Re: Cymbal Ink and the Evolving Understanding of Weight

And my first attempt to apply similar weight classes to Paiste 602 and Sound Creation 22" cymbals is here.

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129860&stc=1&d=1581825635
...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals Yesterday, 09:47 PM
Replies: 15
Views: 192
Posted By zenstat
Re: Cymbal Ink and the Evolving Understanding of Weight

First up the 22" weight ranges from LuvMyLeedy which are still in use. I had a close look and I can see how they were constructed. The ranges use a 10% range for each weight class, so construct a +5%...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 02-12-2020, 06:23 PM
Replies: 15
Views: 192
Posted By zenstat
Re: Cymbal Ink and the Evolving Understanding of Weight

That one will have the Small Cup because that's what Zildjian used on cymbals up to 17" at that time. The MEDIUM ink is the sloping out M version which was in use for some time. Again I haven't...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 02-12-2020, 05:51 PM
Replies: 15
Views: 192
Posted By zenstat
Re: Cymbal Ink and the Evolving Understanding of Weight

Yes that is the Special Cup. Starting some time in the 1960s Zildjian started using that cup on 18" to 20" Crash and Crash Ride models. This is already well documented, and your 18" cymbal is one of...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 02-12-2020, 04:21 PM
Replies: 15
Views: 192
Posted By zenstat
Re: Cymbal Ink and the Evolving Understanding of Weight

I realize I also forgot to mention that the THIN ink on yours looks like the thicker version which came in maybe in the 1960s? The ink sequence is another whole topic under study. To help check my...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 02-12-2020, 03:46 PM
Replies: 4
Views: 100
Posted By zenstat
Re: Can someone help identify this Zildjian

Yes 60s trademark stamp and the typical hammering and lathing for the production era.
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 02-12-2020, 03:24 PM
Replies: 15
Views: 192
Posted By zenstat
Re: Cymbal Ink and the Evolving Understanding of Weight

Your stamp image is sufficient quality to meet the diagnostic criteria for a 70s stamp. The alignment of H and E is enough to give a unique id. Back when there was confusion about how to tell a late...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 02-12-2020, 12:08 AM
Replies: 15
Views: 192
Posted By zenstat
Re: Cymbal Ink and the Evolving Understanding of Weight

I agree that is a 70s stamp. But trademarks went on up to a few years after a cymbal was made. Other production clues tell you what production era it is from. The trademark tells you what trademark...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 02-12-2020, 12:07 AM
Replies: 15
Views: 192
Posted By zenstat
Re: Cymbal Ink and the Evolving Understanding of Weight

I've been working on this for the last few years. Both on models and weight class ink. I've got examples from catalogs, flyers, price lists, and hundreds of cymbals with weight class ink still on...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-30-2020, 06:07 PM
Replies: 33
Views: 706
Posted By zenstat
Re: Why doesn't anyone reverse engineer old K's?

Moot question. It has already been done multiple times by multiple individuals and companies. The alloys are well understood and documented.

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Alloys

Even when the...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-28-2020, 07:21 PM
Replies: 13
Views: 314
Posted By zenstat
Re: Info on Zildjian Canadian K brilliant finish?

This is how internet rumors get started. If you can come up with a specific reference or references then we have a chance to evaluate the evidence.

In another context you can see how Gretsch have...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-28-2020, 07:10 PM
Replies: 13
Views: 314
Posted By zenstat
Re: Info on Zildjian Canadian K brilliant finish?

I remember seeing a newspaper report about that fire but I've misplaced whatever reference I had to it. Do you happen to have a reference or link Bill?

I tried to introduce the term burnished (vs...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-28-2020, 02:52 PM
Replies: 13
Views: 314
Posted By zenstat
Re: Info on Zildjian Canadian K brilliant finish?

I don't have an accurate figure for what proportion of Canadian Ks were brilliant finish. Certainly some were, as I've seen others. Brilliant finish was done with a machine which was patented by...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-13-2020, 02:05 PM
Replies: 4
Views: 234
Posted By zenstat
Re: Stamp ID if possible

Looks like the 1.5" tall version of the 60s stamp to me. My methods aren't 100% to tell all 1.5" 60s from 1.25" 60s unless you put a ruler next to it. But they are pretty good:
...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-11-2020, 09:30 PM
Replies: 6
Views: 401
Posted By zenstat
Re: 1960s Zildjian New Beat Top - Thin/Dark

Patience is rewarded.

The look of the trademark stamp on your new bottom make me think it might be the 1.5" tall version of the 60s stamp. Is it the taller version, or are my eyes deceiving me on...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-10-2020, 05:47 PM
Replies: 11
Views: 4,869
Posted By zenstat
Re: Sabian Cymbal Timeline

I don't see a "1980 Slingerland catalog", but I've got a scan of a reputed 1983 catalog and p28 shows this family portrait which may be the source of the discussion. What I see looks like Sabian...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-10-2020, 05:28 PM
Replies: 11
Views: 4,869
Posted By zenstat
Re: Sabian Cymbal Timeline

Thanks coll3ctor. Buying and uploading is a great help. That is the bottom ink that I used to think was the earliest form. Then others came along claiming that the earliest ones didn't have the...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-10-2020, 03:25 PM
Replies: 11
Views: 4,869
Posted By zenstat
Re: Sabian Cymbal Timeline

A timeline for Sabian will be part of the Cymbal Wiki

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Sabian

but for now there is only a stub.

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Sabian

I have a lot of information...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-08-2020, 07:01 PM
Replies: 11
Views: 522
Posted By zenstat
Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

The hollow ink Zildjian has been added later. I've come across 5 or so where this has been done. Plus the hollow ink Zildjian goes on the bottom not the top. It was in use from 1978 to mid 1982.
...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-08-2020, 06:50 PM
Replies: 13
Views: 916
Posted By zenstat
Re: 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

8 is the most common number for 20" and larger cymbals. 6 is also found. Positioning is most commonly a bit further in during the 1950s (2.5" - 3" in from the edge) than later on (1" in from the...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-08-2020, 06:41 PM
Replies: 2
Views: 217
Posted By zenstat
Re: Value Paiste Formula 602 Joe Morello Script Logo Cymbals

I'm curious what internet sources indicate Joe Morello used 602 Sound Edge hats. Did it come from Cymbal Wiki and thus the Paiste Profiles?

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Paiste_Joe_Morello

Or is...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-01-2020, 04:29 PM
Replies: 127
Views: 6,364
Posted By zenstat
Re: Type I,II,III old K s

The earliest I've seen was engraved for presentation in April 1883. I have the images tucked away under the Type 0 page (for lack of a better place).
...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 01-01-2020, 01:53 AM
Replies: 127
Views: 6,364
Posted By zenstat
Re: Type I,II,III old K s

Cymbal Wiki is my site so if you are saying my site is not accurate then please contact me privately and we'll see what you can offer to help to improve it. If you mean Wikipedia (there are a couple...
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 12-31-2019, 08:17 PM
Replies: 127
Views: 6,364
Posted By zenstat
Re: Type I,II,III old K s

"wont admit zenstat" has this data available:

http://cymbal.wiki/alloy-analysis-h2.pdf

in the general write up on alloy composition which is here

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Alloys
Forum: Vintage Cymbals 12-10-2019, 09:22 PM
Replies: 11
Views: 522
Posted By zenstat
Re: mystery old avedis cymbal

Finally found the thread. The link starts at page 2 which is where the A Zildjian trademark comes up. Prior to that it is about K Zildjian Istanbul cymbals. That is of course nice reading as well.
...
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