Appraisals

[wayne]

Hi...
Do you folks offer this service here,if not,who could you recommend?..thx

[deadhead]

Post pictures and specs in the "what is it worth" section, I'm sure there are people here who can help you out.

[Webmaster]

It depends on the type of appraisal. If it needs to be done by a certified appraiser for insurance reasons, then you need to contact one of the larger companies. There are appraisers that need to handle and see the items.

Online there are appraisers in the business that give you an appraisal, but if that holds up with an insurance company is another story.

I have heard stories that even with the appraisal it did not matter.

Even better then an appraisal is photos of similar drums and what they have sold for, or documentation of the same. A letter from people in the business stating the value and their credentials is also a bonus.

Video tape and photograph your items and store it all in a safe place.

So is this for insurance, private sale or just to have on file?

David

[wayne]

Well,since you asked,Im working on my will and plan on leaving most of my vintage gear to by sons,but since they dont play they would have no idea what to do with the gear.Help2

[Webmaster]

Ahhh I have a few thing in place as well and the family knows who to call about my collection if something happens. That should be in the will. Someone you can trust "after" you are gone to facilitate the selling of your gear for the family.

I would follow through and price these drums with some industry people. get a letter and print any similar drums for sale on web sites and eBay.

David

[O-Lugs]

hi, wayne!

In MY opinion, I think you have as much power to assess the value as anyone. You've been around these forums a long time. You know what people have to say about most of the common and collectible drums. I would make an educated guess. That's all anyone can really do. The value of these things fluctuates greatly. You might get an assessment, now and then live to be 100 years old and realize that whatever you figured the value to be has either gone through the roof or gone through the floor.

I, personally, am not in favor of paying for an assessment on a drum just to get a piece of paper. That whole thing seems like a sham to me.

That's my 2 cents.

That'll be $100.00 please.

:)

[wayne]

I think you,re right about that O lugs,and thankfully Mike Curoto has offered his sevice to me via telephoneExcited...remember those things??

[OldSchool]

EXCELLENT TOPIC and long overdue, IMHO!

I believe that the distinction that David has pointed out regarding the actual purpose of the appraisal (insurance / private sale / filing) is critical. However, I also tend to concur with the position expressed by O-Lugs that the current owner more than likely has as much, if not more, power to assess the value of his respective vintage pieces than any third party.

I've always been of the opinion that the value of ANY piece is only worth the highest amount that one individual is willing to pay at the specific time the item is offered for sale -- no more, no less. We've all seen and, more than likely experienced, the fluctuation in prices through the years, based on the economy and other factors.

In regard to appraisers, it's been my experience that a significant amount of them (not all, of course!) tend to under-estimate the value of vintage drums when conducting their appraisals. Perhaps they're hoping to have an opportunity to purchase the items themselves and then re-sell at a significantly higher asking price. I have no idea. I simply don't feel comfortable dealing with them. This speaks to the reference of "sham" as used in O-Lugs post.

What I'd like to know is whether any fellow forum members have actually gone through the process of having their drums and/or accessories appraised and insured and then had to file a claim or claims due to the items being damaged, destroyed or stolen? I'd love to hear the results.

Were you adequately compensated for the loss or damage? Was the coverage worth getting? Any "unique" circumstances you'd like to share? Also, getting back to the original issue -- how was the "value" of the items actually determined and by whom?

As usual, any and all "words of wisdom" would be greatly appreciated! Please enlighten me on this one.

THANKS!

[O-Lugs]

I have not.

I tried to figure out how to do that. All my younger relatives would be uninterested in maintaining my vintage drums. So, I guess we'll see what happens. Maybe some of you will luck out! ya never know!

[latzanimal]

I had a set of Ruby Strata Standards "appraised" at the Chicago drum show a couple of years ago by their "expert". I sold the drums on ebay for twice what he said they were worth 'at the max'. Go figure..... :rolleyes:

[OldSchool]

Latzanimal: Exactly my point! Was your kit formally appraised? In other words, did you receive some sort of "official" written document, more than likely with some sort of embossed seal, "certifying" the appraised amount? I was also wondering what you were charged for this service, if you wouldn't mind sharing that information. THANKS!

[latzanimal]

Latzanimal: Exactly my point! Was your kit formally appraised? In other words, did you receive some sort of "official" written document, more than likely with some sort of embossed seal, "certifying" the appraised amount? I was also wondering what you were charged for this service, if you wouldn't mind sharing that information. THANKS!

No, it wasn't formal. I just had some pics and the 'expert' was whoever does the consignment sales at the show. I forget who it is, but he is supposed to be knowledgeable...I basically showed him the same pics I was going to use on the 'bay and said, "What do ya think I can get for 'em." Then he gave me his spiel....

I was pretty sure they were worth more and this was one time the sun shined on a dog's ass... flowers2:p:D

The service was free because I didn't even bring them in the door for him to sell....

[Webmaster]

I can offer some insight into the process because I do appraisals for drums. Not for this web site, but for someone in the business.

To me an appraisal by anything other then a certified service is just an estimation. There are appraisal services in the antique community that go through extensive research, chemical dating and a variety of hi-tech systems to certify the authenticity of an item.

Once they do that the value jumps up in regards to the credibility of the appraiser and the services they provide.

Since we are talking about drums here, there really is no reason for that type of appraisal unless we are talking about proving that a drum belonged to a famous drummer. Which in many cases I have helped other people in the business with. Once you get a photo of the person with the drum and can positively I.D. the drum, the value goes up.

As I stated to Wayne, doing his own research, printing eBay sales, contacting people in the business and getting letters will create a nice selling history for a particular drum. Video and photos with you and the drum and a date in the photo also proves it is your drum.

Here is the method that I know is being used. Most dealers keep all sales history and documentation for drums they have purchased and sold. This creates a track record over time. The more drums that they sell, the more data they collect. Over 20 or so years we could be talking 1,000's of drums.

This is documented history that can be averaged over time. So if someone wants a drum appraised then that data is what is used.

Many times appraisals for Insurance are inflated, have you ever had a ring appraised!!! You would never get that in a sale on the open market!

So if you see an appraisal to me it is a stepping stone to what some one estimated the drum to be at a given moment. We all know that drums that are worth far less then the final selling value show up on eBay and that really puts a kink in peoples minds.

I was contacted by someone a few months ago that had a GIANT collection of rare early snare drums in storage and the unit next to his burnt down, his collection was destroyed and he was scrambling to put all of the pieces back together and try and value items for insurance.

David

[O-Lugs]

Some of the time people aren't critical enough and other times they are too critical. A Rogers guy might love to find good things about Rogers drums but then conversely, be overly critical of Ludwig drums...and so forth. I've seen people argue about such things! But, that's not necessarily a bad thing!

I feel that a public consensus type of appraisal (or estimate) is much more accurate in the valuation of drums.

That's why this website is so great. We have several vintage "specialists" with very diverse approaches to valuing things. A Ludwig purist point of view is one thing. I, myself, love certain Ludwig drums. But I prefer other people to share their insights and experience, too, when it comes to estimating values. Because doing that tempers my personal perspective with other points of view. And it's that overall mix of perspectives that can be used to form your own perspective as to what a drum or set of drums might be worth.

[OldSchool]

David / O-Lugs: Again, your points are valid (as usual) and greatly appreciated, at least on my end.Clapping Happy2

[latzanimal]

I can offer some insight into the process because I do appraisals for drums. Not for this web site, but for someone in the business....

Dave, this is not meant with any disrespect for your appraisals.....

I think the only thing appraisals are good for IS insurance. And only on vintage items that can't be replaced. And only to make your life easier with the insurance company 'cause God forbid they shell out more than they have to or actually believe someone at their word with documentation.

The selling point of any item is only worth what someone is willing to pay at that given moment, as someone already mentioned. The Standard set I sold for twice the appraisal price was listed 2 prior times on ebay without even a nibble. I started all of the auctions at my reserve which was 5 bills. On the third auction, I don't what happened but someone bid. Then someone else, and on and on, etc. I didn't change the wording, pics, price, shipping... anything on any of the auctions.

My point with Ins companies: Years ago, our band truck got slammed into in Chicago at about 55-60 mph. Something went thru my Zildjian plastic cymbal case and nicked or broke a bunch of my cymbals. Some were old, some were new, none were borrowed and I was blue... sorry, sidetracked. I turn in a replacement cost sheet to have the cymbals replaced. We all know that if you take care of a cymbal it will last regardless of age. The Insurance company said, "well, we'll give you 50% because they were used." I asked about the newer ones, the older ones which might have gone up in value and got this reply and I quote, "We prorate everything no matter how old it is." I was upset to say the least. I calmly explained that their driver ruined my stuff and it should be replaced, regardless of age or cost. They said "Sorry, that's how we do it." Even on a new house, a Street or road sign, doesn't matter, they only pay out pro rated prices. It was at that point I vowed to never ever have a policy with this company regardless of price. Even if I had an appraisal on them, they would have pro rated it. I know because I asked.

So, its like fishing, sometimes you reel 'em in and other times not a nibble. It just needs to be your day.

[O-Lugs]

Another thing is that the drum collecting market is so specialized, that people in it tend to set the rules. Some guys have BIG collections of drums -maybe some collectors have collected ALL the Gladstone drums and sets, for example -They are the ones who will inevitably determine what they would sell their collection for. There weren't too many Gladstones made, so there is a potential for a monopoly on those. It would be more difficult to take out a monopoly on Ludwig Supraphonics because there are so many of them. Conversely, Supraphonics can be had for a wide variety of prices -determined by the fluctuating, open market.

I have some drum sets that people have offered me SICK money for! But I'm not ready to sell them. I would rather have the drums more than the money. I can always make the money some other way, but I'll never get the drums again. But when I am ready to sell, I won't be giving anyone fair market value pricing -if you know what I mean!

[knavel]

There are actually a couple of topics going on here, most points I'll make have been touched upon, but maybe it will help to have it all in one post.

1) Inheritance
Wayne, I think the best you can do if your heirs don't want to play/keep the set(s) is just be sure they have a good understanding of the market value of the item(s) in question. I don't think you need a formal appraisal, as noted in this thread (and discussed below) that's really only important for loss, theft & damage.

We hope that you'll be with us for a long, long time and in that case, the pricing information could become stale over time. If your stuff is really nice and your children don't have an innate aptitude for selling things, it might be a good idea to list the name of reputable seller or two if you have one you like to use for the transaction(s). Sure they'll have to pay a comission but at least you know the value will be maximized and the sale will be properly handled.

2) Insurance
The way most insurance works is that the insurer is happy to take your valuation of an item, at least up to a certain value. Over that threshold (for example $10K with my insurer), they require a written appraisal.

The reason they are happy to take your valuation is that they set your policy cost based on what you say...that's the max you will get if there is a claim, but you are hardly guaranteed to get it if you do make a claim. Only when you make a claim do they actually look into price and determine the pay out. And that's when they beat you down.

The reason you should make your claim fairly high is on the basis that if your set burned in a fire, how much would it cost to replace immediately. Well we all know that "immediately" means P00der2 or Cheryl W prices.

When shopping for insurance you need to be very aware of the scope of the coverage and--*very important*-the insurer's reputation for paying out claims. The internet is great for the latter.

Scope of coverage means in what circumstances your stuff is covered. Also, there is different pricing for a gigging set vs one that sits in the trophy room at home.

Reputation is important. One company may be really cheap, but they screw you around when you make a claim. Go for the more expensive one that actually pays.

Also, if you do gig, make sure you stuff is covered on that basis. That way, in the case of our friend who was hit in Chicago, YOUR insurance pays in full and they get to recoup what they can from the person at fault's insurer (in this case 1/2): Let that be your insurance company's problem not yours. Again, you need to know exactly what is covered, in what circumstances and for how much.

As far as insurers, there is none better than USAA but you have to be military. They only require appraisals for north of $10K. In my letter, I provided evidence from gbase to support my pricing (screnshots). They don't accept ebay, even though we all know that is the best guauge of they market. Again, I went with the most Cheryl W sort of price because that is what I will pay to replace it. It's for sure I wont be getting a replacement 1961 Gretsch 6120 for $700 again.

[wayne]

I did not expect so much wonderful advise on this subject...thx to all of you,i really appreciate itBowing

[latzanimal]

I did not expect so much wonderful advise on this subject...thx to all of you,i really appreciate itBowing

Let's hope there's no rush to need any of this info...

[mcjnic]

... just in case there is ... it's spelled, "MICHAEL" ... just in case.