Vintage Gretsch Drums

[mxpress]

I have a Vintage Gretsch Drumset from the 70's. I'm having some problems trying to figure out if the set is a combination of different drums or if it was a kit. Here's what I have. Bass Drum model # 4247 (22X14"), Small Tom model # 4416 (13X9"), Larger tom model # 4420 (14X10"), Floor Tom Model # 4419 (18X16") I have a 4165 chrome 14X5.5" snare (which I purchased after I bought the set. I'm trying to determine if this set is worth buffing up or should I move on to a new set. The set plays well and I'm leaning towards fixing up the small issues associated with being on the road for 10 plus years then sitting. Additionally, if anyone can steer me towards some good sites for Gretsch Hardware/repairs it would be appreciated. Thanks

[patrick]

Hi,

Gretsch serial numbers are fairly notorious for how little they signify. http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/serial_numbers.html

Are the interior labels all the same? That can sometimes help.

But Gretsch acknowledges the situation on their website:

"The second Gretsch badge premiered in 1970. We'll call it Stop-Sign Badge #1. It features the Gretsch "t-roof" logo above the eyelet with their famous slogan below and Drums left of the eyelet with U.S.A. to its right. Baldwin (Gretsch's owner from 1967 through 1984) scrapped the round badge in favor of this sepia-toned design. For the first time, all Gretsch drums had their badges affixed in the same manner. Using 3/8" eyelets universally, it was no longer necessary to use tacks on toms or oversized grommets for bass drums. Though most believe SSB#1 to be synonymous with Gretsch's relocation to Booneville Arkansas, it was actually in use just prior to their move from Brooklyn. It's also the most common of the three stop-sign designs, as SSB#1 was in use from 1970 until roughly 1978. The orange/white internal labels stayed the same, but are even less helpful in drum dating, as sequencing numbers from this period repeat and vary wildly. Model numbers from later in this era were handwritten in black, and eventually, green ink. Sometime before the next label change, the lifetime shell guarantee was literally blacked-out with a Magic-Marker! Obviously, Baldwin was looking to avoid liability. As '70s Gretsch hardware and drum finishes varied often throughout the decade, distinguishing when those changes occurred is your best chance in determining a Gretsch drum's approximate year of manufacture."
http://www.gretschdrums.com/?fa=historybadges

Repairs:

Forks' Drum Closet gets a lot of recommendations for their work on Gretsch drums. (I have no personal experience, but I can't remember seeiing any complaints.)
http://www.forksdrumcloset.com/new_gc.php

Replacement pieces: I don't have any great suggestions beyond ebay.

Any pics?

Patrick

[mxpress]

Thanks Patrick for the info. Here's some pics of the drums. I hate and also have hated the tom mounting system on these drums. If I do re-wrap them, I would like to change the system. At a minium, I 'm going to clean them up and purchase new heads and then take it from there. I removed the lower rims and the bass drum from hoop for inspection purposes. The serial numbers are as follows: Bass Drum model # 4247 s/n 35163 - Large Tom model # 4420 s/n 35247, Small Tom Model # 4416 s/n 35244, Floor Tom Model # 4419 s/n 35014, Chrome Snare Model # 4165 s/n 86272. As I said in the beginning, I'm researching my options and trying to find out if these drums were put together adhoc or were an actual Gretsch set. Thanks again for your help

[MastroSnare]

I would be very surprised if those weren't Gretsch drums... the shells and labels inside... who would go to that much trouble to fake something like this?

Gretsch was real slow in responding when heavy duty hardware became popular in the early 70's. For years everyone I knew thought they had the best drums and worst hardware. That tom holder you have there is plain ugly, I agree, and I don't blame you for wanting to swap it out.

If you're going to keep the drums, it doesn't matter what you do to them as far as keeping them original.

[patrick]

Hi,

I don't know how you can confirm if an older Gretsch kit left the factory as a kit. If all the hardware are of the same period, and all the shells ditto, your chances are pretty good. But I don't think the company did any coherent numbering at that time. My gut feeling is that they are a factory kit. Why not?

That particular tom mount set up was both inelegant and prone to failure, and a major reason so many drummers moved on to Pearl and/or Yamaha hardware.

If you are going to keep them for playing, make 'em functional to suit your needs. (Not popular opinion sometimes, with all respect to the more preservationist folks.) The problem you will have is a mess of holes. That tom mount leaves a big old hole in the shell. I have a set of clear maple SSB's that I bought used fitted with both the old mount you have, and a newer Pearl mount. For weight reasons, I took the old and useless Gretsch mount off. The resulting holes have been there through years of stage and studio work--still my favourite kit.

Patrick

[mxpress]

Thanks MastroSnare -
I'm sure they are Gretsch Drums. My question was, if the drums were a Kit or just a combination of drums. I haven't found a kit name or model# on the web that has all those model number drum types. I have the original snare drum (the one listed was purchased a few years after I purchased the drums) So if there's a website that anyone knows that will allow me to plug-in the model and or serial numbers of the drums, that will associate them to a kit name or model, that would be great.

Patrick again thanks for the info: Any insight of what Yamaha or Pearl hardware I should be looking at?

[dylandylan]

Hi there

Old news by now, but I'm just chiming in to say I have the same era kit, and have entirely removed the swivel mounts from the toms and the mounting from the kick drum. I'm using RIMS mounts in their place, and the great thing is you can align the mount to visually cover the big hole that is left when you remove the original parts. Unless you look very closely you'd never realise there was a hole from the outside.

Great looking kit, and I expect sounds killer too.

My biggest grief is the spindly kick drum legs - they really are useless.

[Ludwig-dude]

Its possible that they were not a factory offered kit OUT OF THE CATALOG, however, Gretsch drums have pretty much been a made to order item for years....custom shop, you know? So chances are it is a kit that was ordered new by someone, just not an off the rack one from the catalog. I agree with the statement of big old holes will be left in the drums if you just remove the exsisting mounts. You could remove just the arms and leave the actual mounts in place to not have any holes and then use RIMS mounts to hang the toms off of cymbal stands or whatever.

Serial numbers don't really mean anything when it comes to Gretsch drums, other than a generic era in which they were made. With the non-round badge drums it is easier to pinpoint roughly when they were made by the badge design as it changed several times over the years. Check out the history section on Gretsch's website for more details.

[MastroSnare]

Its possible that they were not a factory offered kit OUT OF THE CATALOG, however, Gretsch drums have pretty much been a made to order item for years....custom shop, you know?...

My understanding is that custom ordered stuff was not the norm.

I've seen tons of Gretsch sets in music stores for decades, and none were custom ordered, all were bought by music stores on the speculation that someone would like them.

Same as GM, you can custom order cars but the vast majority aren't.

[Ludwig-dude]

My understanding is that custom ordered stuff was not the norm.

I've seen tons of Gretsch sets in music stores for decades, and none were custom ordered, all were bought by music stores on the speculation that someone would like them.

Same as GM, you can custom order cars but the vast majority aren't.

I only said its POSSIBLE, not necessarily the case......:D

[MastroSnare]

I only said its POSSIBLE, not necessarily the case......:D

I was responding to the comment "Gretsch drums have pretty much been a made to order item for years".
I think when you said "pretty much" that it implied that it was "the majority of the time", and my point was that I hadn't noticed that.

That's all, no biggie and in reality who knows for sure?

The truth is that very little was written down about any of this stuff while it was happening, and that's why this is good for a bunch of passionate people to share their observations and try to figure out what really happened.

[mxpress]

Thanks Everyone for your comments. I've made the decision to restore the kit and upgrade the mounted hardware. I'll start reseaching what hardware to purchase and may even look into re-wrapping them. Having never done this before, any suggestions are greatly appreciated. I also noticed one of my tom shells is cracked. So I may also want to replace that shell. It would be great to replace it with the same vintage shell type.

[mxpress]

OK - I've been doing some research and I'm running into some trouble finding the exact vintage wrapping for my Gretsch drums. Any suggestions?

[jonnistix]

OK - I've been doing some research and I'm running into some trouble finding the exact vintage wrapping for my Gretsch drums. Any suggestions?

Uh...those are not wrapped. They are stained wood, so it would take some furniture re-finishing skill to bring them back to their full-blown glory. If you are uncertain as to how the work should be done, you may want to have them looked at by a quality furniture re-finisher. Those are some very nice drums, and an antique dealer may be a good place to inquire as to a good hand in working them. It would likely run you the same amount as a quality wrap. I would not, personally, consider putting wrap on them.

[knavel]

I remember locating a set in I think that very color and era for my old drummer in the 80s. It's one of the only wood finishes I like, not to light like maple and not to heavy like walnut.

Question: I am not clear as to why the drums need refinishing. Yes there are some hardware issues, and dealing with these will leave holes, but the drums look like they are just dusty to me when it comes to the finish.

Why do they need refinishing?

If you think you do need refinishing, there is a guy on the Martin guitar forum who seems like a decent guy and does old furniture. I would look into him as I've seen comments from him on that forum that make sense...I can't endorse as I don't know nor have I seen work, but he's said some sensible things.

[mxpress]

The Two Mounted Toms have been gashed by the cymbal stands when the kit was fairly new. Someone while dancing fell into the kit driving the cymbal stands into the toms. My plan is to re-wrap those only for now. I agree - the kit looks really impressive when shined up. The pictures I posted were prior to me cleaning them. Now the trick is to find the matching wrap! Which I'm still searching for.

Thanks:confused:

[mxpress]

jonnistix: They are wrapped. I thought they were naturally finished as well but if you look closely at the middle picture I posted of the tom tom, you'll see the wrapping seam to the right of the metal mount extending the entire width of the drum. Believe me, I wish they were naturally finished


:(