is my gretsch a fake? Help me pls

[giampiero]

Hi there, im a drummer from Italy, i'd buy for ?2.000 an old Gretsch jazzette drumset by somebody here in Italy as a second hand of course.
He told me that this drum should be made across the years 70' 80'.
The sound is definitely wonderful as a Great Gretsch, but i got some dubts about the real assemblage of all the componets (bass drum 18', tom 12' and floor tom 14').
Here some pics that show why i've dubts about it



Best regards to all of you, and thank you so much.

Giampiero Virtuoso

[giampiero]

just some other pics.....
See the different labels between the bass drum, floor tom and the tomtom.
Falling Do DOH :(

[Webmaster]

Something is going on, but not necessarily a fake.

Yes, you have three different badges, and the bass mount tom holder
was added later, so it looks more like a set put together then a factory match.

It is very conceivable since Gretsch even has catalog shots with different badge drums that the factory did this.

The chances of someone going to that length to fake a newer Gretsch kit is probable but not likely.

I would just say a factory miss-match. Rich K or Steve Maxwell woul d know more about Gretsch then me. So it is only a guess.

David

[giampiero]

Something is going on, but not necessarily a fake.

Yes, you have three different badges, and the bass mount tom holder
was added later, so it looks more like a set put together then a factory match.

It is very conceivable since Gretsch even has catalog shots with different badge drums that the factory did this.

The chances of someone going to that length to fake a newer Gretsch kit is probable but not likely.

I would just say a factory miss-match. Rich K or Steve Maxwell woul d know more about Gretsch then me. So it is only a guess.

DavidCryBaby

I'm totally agree with you!
Besides.....?2.000 seems to be like a fraud. :(
I didn't made a good purchase, thats it.........

thanks for reply me Keep on Pl

P.S.
The tag inside the floor tom talking about a birdseye maple.
Somewhere on the web i'd find that is one of the rarest kinds of wood on the planet.
Can i smile for this at least??? Eye Ball

[O-Lugs]

Bird'seye maple is not one of the rarest woods on Earth. It is very pretty wood, though.

Those drums are definitely Gretsch drums. If you like the sound, then that's the reason to smile.

I have no idea what that price equates to US Dollars.

[giampiero]

Bird'seye maple is not one of the rarest woods on Earth. It is very pretty wood, though.

Those drums are definitely Gretsch drums. If you like the sound, then that's the reason to smile.

I have no idea what that price equates to US Dollars.
About $2,527.00 USD

[Webmaster]

I edited the price and did an online converter and came up with that dollar amount

?2000 = $2,527.99

The original post had ?2.000 Which = $2.53

So I had to assume it was ?2000

Please clarify that with us.

If so I probably would not be smiling either, but as O-Lugs stated if they sound good then play them and forget about it since we are all unhappy with a purchase or two in our lives.

I have at least two people walking around somewhere that each owe me more then that and I gave up years ago to ever get it back. At least you have the drums.

David
Webmaster

[giampiero]

I edited the price and did an online converter and came up with that dollar amount

?2000 = $2,527.99

The original post had ?2.000 Which = $2.53

So I had to assume it was ?2000

Please clarify that with us.

If so I probably would not be smiling either, but as O-Lugs stated if they sound good then play them and forget about it since we are all unhappy with a purchase or two in our lives.

I have at least two people walking around somewhere that each owe me more then that and I gave up years ago to ever get it back. At least you have the drums.




David
Webmaster
Sorry, i made a mistake. I spend ?2000 = 2485.00$ (is it right?)
Yes at least you're right, but will u advice me if is the case to call the seller and asking for an explanation or looking for a lawyer?


Still thanks to all of you for the great support.

Giampiero

[O-Lugs]

I do not believe that price is fair. I think it was extremely high for what the drums are. If they were a rare matched ROUND badge kit, and was in excellent original condition, then you would have a "fair" price. I think what you got was an assemblage of orphaned drums. Sound-wise, they will still sound like Gretsch.

What would I have paid for that kit? Well, as a "player's kit", I would probaly be willing to spend $600-$1000 IF that little 18" bass drum has not been altered. I don't know Gretsch stuff very well, but that tom mount on the bass drum is partially covering the badge. I can't imagine that was a factory installation, but, again, I could be wrong. If it was altered, then I'm at the low end of the price range.

Another curious question is the title Gretsch "Jazzette". Did Gretsch make a kit called a "Jazzette", too? I was under the impression that was exclusive to Ludwig drums.

I don't mean to be discouraging. As David stated, we have probably all made some "less-than-perfect" deals in our day.

I can't advise you about legal issues. Good luck.

[giampiero]

I do not believe that price is fair. I think it was extremely high for what the drums are. If they were a rare matched ROUND badge kit, and was in excellent original condition, then you would have a "fair" price. I think what you got was an assemblage of orphaned drums. Sound-wise, they will still sound like Gretsch.

What would I have paid for that kit? Well, as a "player's kit", I would probaly be willing to spend $600-$1000 IF that little 18" bass drum has not been altered. I don't know Gretsch stuff very well, but that tom mount on the bass drum is partially covering the badge. I can't imagine that was a factory installation, but, again, I could be wrong. If it was altered, then I'm at the low end of the price range.

Another curious question is the title Gretsch "Jazzette". Did Gretsch make a kit called a "Jazzette", too? I was under the impression that was exclusive to Ludwig drums.

I don't mean to be discouraging. As David stated, we have probably all made some "less-than-perfect" deals in our day.

I can't advise you about legal issues. Good luck.

:(
About the name "Jazzette" should be probably just for the european market.
For the rest, im tryng to call the seller and ask him why didn't tell me about the assemblage. Hope to resolve as soon as possible.

Thanks
Giampiero

[Rich K.]

Here's a response from someone who knows...
http://www.drumforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=7711

[Webmaster]

:(
About the name "Jazzette" should be probably just for the european market.
For the rest, im tryng to call the seller and ask him why didn't tell me about the assemblage. Hope to resolve as soon as possible.

Thanks
Giampiero

I would probably do the same thing. If the set was sold and described as a matched set then I think that is wrong and you should question that. It is after the fact, so there is probably not much you can do, but it never hurts to try.

Let us know what happens

David Webmaster

[giampiero]

Here's a response from someone who knows...
http://www.drumforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=7711

Hi Rich, many thanks to you for bring my post on drumfoum.org.
I will just follow the way to call my lawyer and try to get back some ???

I'll let you know what happen in the next days.

Still thank you so muchCool

Greetings, Giampiero

[giampiero]

I would probably do the same thing. If the set was sold and described as a matched set then I think that is wrong and you should question that. It is after the fact, so there is probably not much you can do, but it never hurts to try.

Let us know what happens

David Webmaster


Sure David, i must try to get back some money and will advise you about any news going on.
Thank you
Greetings, Giampiero

[Webmaster]

Yes, it is good to see two drum forums said the exact same thing. So now you have two groups of experts to state your claim when you communicate with the seller.

David
Webmaster

[drummer]

What happens is really simple. You have drums left over in the store so you wait for somebody to come in and look for on or more drums. You end up re ordering or picking up a drum or two to make set. We ordered many drums and put the bass mounts the guys wanted. Or a person has picked they up by matching the colours. They are Gretsch drums. Just a different mount. That is one of the beauty of drums you can mix and match your own personal way. Cost if you are happy with them and get the sound you want. They are worth what ever you feel is right. A seller has a value in his mind that he wants.
Bill.drummer

[O-Lugs]

What happens is really simple. You have drums left over in the store so you wait for somebody to come in and look for on or more drums. You end up re ordering or picking up a drum or two to make set. We ordered many drums and put the bass mounts the guys wanted. Or a person has picked they up by matching the colours. They are Gretsch drums. Just a different mount. That is one of the beauty of drums you can mix and match your own personal way. Cost if you are happy with them and get the sound you want. They are worth what ever you feel is right. A seller has a value in his mind that he wants.
Bill.drummer

While everything you say is true and understandable, I know there are some people out there who see a kit and think it's somehow an original factory kit at first, but come to find out later that it's not. There's nothing wrong with a store "Frankensteining" a nice little player's kit together. But, if the guy thought he was buying an original kit and got a Frankenstein, then he might have cause to want to make some adjustments to the transaction. It is my opinion that he paid an unusually high price for a pieced-together kit, so I thought I should mention it to him since he was inquiring. Other people might view that price as fair and that's certainly their prerogative.

These things happen.

[jazzbo]

I do not believe that price is fair. I think it was extremely high for what the drums are. If they were a rare matched ROUND badge kit, and was in excellent original condition, then you would have a "fair" price. I think what you got was an assemblage of orphaned drums. Sound-wise, they will still sound like Gretsch..


$ 2500 for a round badge 18/14/12 ??? I daresay a bass drum alone , depending on the finish and condition , would fetsch $ 2000 minimum . A 14x14 round badge floor tom $ 800 min...A 12" $ 400 . If the kit were a factory one , $ 4500-5000 easily .

[Webmaster]

Hey jazzbo welcome to the forum!

This post has made its course! What I found intriguing was the original question, "is my gretsch a fake? Help me pls

I think we can all safely say they are not.

Looking at the pictues of the bass drum, what is your opinion on the placement of the tom holder? I think it is over part of the badge?

So then the poster thought they paid to much for a set probably sold as a set instead of being sold as a mixed set.

Hard to say what happened in the original deal and what was said. If the kit was an original matched set based on those sizes and year of drums then the price would be very good. I think we can all agree on that.

In regards to 60's 18" bass drums I have not seen many on Ebay myself, but I have seen plenty 20/14/12 recently. What is your opinion on how many were actually sold in the 18/14/12 configuration? Was it usually a custom order configuration?

Bottom line I think any 18/14/12 original 60's set would bring good bucks.

The trend for big dollars on single drums like 14" Rogers floor toms has just gone crazy. I can see a guy sitting for years waiting for the perfect floor tom and another guy in the same boat. They would probably give a right arm for it so the price goes way up.

Same for Gretsch or any item that is hard to find. I just saw a Kent drum catalog go for $133.00. Ebay is a blast when it comes to selling and a coin toss most of the time.

So basically I guess I'm just throwing out some questions to pick your brain and gain some new knowledge Mind Blowi

Thanks

David

[O-Lugs]

You're probably right, jazzbo, but I don't consider $4-$5000.00 a "fair" price for any Gretsch kit. I didn't even pay that much money for my original, matched Jazzette/Downbeat kit.

[jazzbo]

[QUOTE=Looking at the pictues of the bass drum, what is your opinion on the placement of the tom holder? I think it is over part of the badge?

In regards to 60's 18" bass drums I have not seen many on Ebay myself, but I have seen plenty 20/14/12 recently. What is your opinion on how many were actually sold in the 18/14/12 configuration? Was it usually a custom order configuration?


David[/QUOTE]

My guess is that the bass drum was a virgin and that the holder was added on by a previous owner .

It is interesting that the original idea to start selling 18" bass drums in the late 50's was a result of Gretsch wanting to reduce their stock of old , 18" floor tom shells ! The 18" bass drums weren't promoted in a catalog though until 1961 .

I think it is safe to say that most of the 18" bass drum kits in the early to late 60's were specially ordered by pro jazz drummers , so relatively speaking there aren't a whole lot out there , and most of those are owned by pro jazz drummers and musicians . A few have made it to Japan . I know , because I (regretfully ) sold one ( midnight blue pearl ) about 7 years ago ! I'd picked up the 6 ply 18/12 for $ 1400 ( matched factory set ) , and found a matching 50's 3 ply 6 months later which I paid $ 600 for . So I got the complete kit for $ 2000 ! I wasn't playing jazz then , and a jazz drummer in Tokyo offered me $ 3300 for the set and I sold it . That's one I'd like to have back !