tucking a calf head

[tbone]

Hi, haven't checked in for while, been working an a John Grey drum that's taking longer than I thought & will have a full report with pics soon.
But I was searching to see if there was info on calf head tucking & couldn't find anything with the search function. So I thought I'd start a thread to see if there's some 1st hand experience out there.
I tried my 1st tuck job for heads for this John Grey drum I'm making. I researched & read everything I could find about head tucking with a Google search, and ordered some untucked calf skins (4" larger diameter than the drum size). I had some old unusable oversized calf heads laying around & soaked them to get the flesh hoops to use; then I cut a section out of each to make the hoops the correct size for the drum. Sorry I didn't take pictures of the rabbit joint (I think that's what the step cut is called) I cut & glued together, rather than a scarf joint. Then I made a 'tucking tool with a large conduit strap & paint brush handle (I'll get a picture of this thing this weekend). Anyway, I started by soaking (in cold wated) the skins for 20 - 30 minutes & laid the hoop on the skin & began tucking at the 12:00 position, 3:00, 6:00 and 9:00. Then, wishing I had at least 2 more hands, it was basically a free for all trying to tuck in between tose spots while the original tucks would come undone. Eventually, I got it tucked all the way around, sloppy, and with many 'folds' which I smoothed out as good as possible. Then I mounted it loosely on the drum with the single flanged hoops & snare clips (or claws). As it dried for the next few days, it ended up looking just like a calfskin head. I'd hear it snap, crackle & pop now & then as it dried, & I tightened the tension rods just enought to make the ridge on the bearing edge form. So I ended up with some 'new' calfsin heads - the folds shrunk & smoothed out pretty much, and some are still there, but my mission accomplished! I'll try to add some pics to this thread in the next couple days.
So anybody else have a head tucking story to tell?

[Webmaster]

I have never done this either, but was paging through an old
Ajax catalog that had a method on how to do it for future reference
and or to help other people.

Thought you would enjoy it.

David

[Webmaster]

Here is another catalog page from a 1933 Leedy Roll-Off Catalog.

A slight difference on how to set the head then the Ajax catalog.

David

[Jim McGill]

I make and repair tupans (daouli) which have 2 goat skin heads, so I can add a bit of information about dealing with skin heads.

1) There are plastic spring clamps sold for woodworking that work well to keep the heads from sliding off the rims after you tuck them in. I use the 4" size at the four cardinal points, adding them after I tuck each in. Then I tuck in between and finally go back, remove the clamps and retuck them in. Sometimes takes a couple trys, but it's quicker than depending on luck.

2) Control the drying using a wet towel. After I mount the heads on the rims and pull them onto the shell with my heading jig (16 all thread rods with wooden hooks at the top and wing nuts) I saturate an old towel, swab the whole head so it's damp and then drape the towel on the face so it covers the whole head. 12 hours or so later (next day usually) I pull the towel back from the edges, but leave it covering the middle 2/3's. Another 12 hours later, I remove the trowel and let it dry another 12 hours or so before I take it off the jig. I do this all in the basement, where it is relatively cool and humid.

YMMV

Jim

[sammypenn]

Well done,getting it on the drum at first attempt is good going,I use clothes pegs to hold 1st tucks in place if they wo'nt stay in place.Next time try double lapping, ie. place the head with the smooth[playing]side up flesh side down on the board,lap in normal way,then place the head on the drum with the batter side up[the same side up as you lapped it]so the skin comes up inside the flesh hoop.It is then lapped against one more side of the flesh hoop.The head will be less likely to slip off the hoop and needs less adjusting and relapping.This works really well on metal flesh hoops as the natural glue in the skin does not stick so well to metal as it does to wood.This is not a new idea,it was shown to me by an old drummer who lapped all his own heads in the 30s 40s,but I have never read it in a book.Dion

[Jim McGill]

Question on the double lapping Sammy (which is the way Macedonian drum heads are lapped, by the way, except they tuck twigs through cuts made ~1/4" in from the edge to help wrap the head around the split willow rim with your fingers, rather than a tool). How much extra diameter do you add to the head when double lapping, to allow for the extra head wrapped around the ring. The thickness of the rim plus the height, or just the height (both x 2 of course since both edges of the head are effected).

[sammypenn]

Small World aint it.I dont know how much I add on,I just place the hoop on the head and cut round what looks like about right plus 50% more. it all depends on how flezible the head and the size of the flesh hoops.Its better to start with plenty of overlap then if its too much you can cut a bit more off and start again because you sure can stick it back on after you've cut it off.Also the thicker the skin the more overlap you need.Hope this makes sense,its very hot here in England in the 90s F.and i am enjoying a rather good bottle of French wine.Dion

[Jim McGill]

Sammy - Thanks for the info. Sounds like you're about as analytical as I am.

If you're interested in the Macedonian technique, take a look at Dave Golber's write up on how to make a Macedonian drum, www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc/articles/tapan.htm

It was in the 90's in Seattle too when I read your posting, so I was enjoying a fine locally made IPA (not an English style one, more a hop monster like they make in the PNW). But it was too hot to type so I waited until this morning.

Jim

[tbone]

Well, I finally got around to taking pics of my home made tucking tool; I made it by cutting the handle off a paint brush, cutting a slit in it to slip a 3/4" conduit strap into, glueing it with epoxy. I smoothed all metal edges to prevent tearing the skins.

[geon]

Can anyone suggest a way for a totallly inexperienced person to tuck a head onto an existing hoop that the original head had been ripped off? I would even consider sending the drum and steel hoop to someone who has the know-how.

Thanks,
Dan

[tbone]

Both these place will do that for you:
http://www.sterntanning.com/percussion.htm
http://www.rebeats.com/calf_heads.html

[geon]

Thank you tbone

[Gerry]

From a 1964 book called Drums and Drumming Today:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/Longfuse123/Lapping.jpg

Not sure if it's of any help. Only got the book yesterday and there's some cool stuff in it.

[Gerry]

Oh, and don't forget: "any of the modern Formica top tables are ideal".

I love old books...

[jonnistix]

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=14_92_102_161

Just happened across this as a source for all you calf skin fans. Looks like the price is right!

[Kona]

Well, I finally got around to taking pics of my home made tucking tool; I made it by cutting the handle off a paint brush, cutting a slit in it to slip a 3/4" conduit strap into, glueing it with epoxy. I smoothed all metal edges to prevent tearing the skins.

THAT IS PRETTY COOL!
I like the looks of that home-made tucking tool.

I've only ever tucked my Valje and Toad conga heads. I would like to tuck a kit drum head sometime in the future though. I bought a dvd and book on how to do that recently on ReBeats - it's still in the mail.

Good post re: your tucking.......thanks ..fun stuffD' Drummer

[Kona]

From a 1964 book called Drums and Drumming Today:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/Longfuse123/Lapping.jpg

Not sure if it's of any help. Only got the book yesterday and there's some cool stuff in it.

Thanks! I liked the little quote in there "I enjoyed the part when the drummer went mad." Good one!

[Webmaster]

This rare video shows you how they did it at Ludwig in the 60's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vt7Nh3nWjo

David

[MastroSnare]

Cool vid.

The tool they're using to tuck the heads reminds me of a Hyde putty knife (see attached pic). Those putty knives have been around for ever, all the pros use them, and I wonder if Ludwig ground them down to make tucking tools.

I'll be phoning Matt at drumfactorydirect.com next week to give his heads another try.

I know of few things that have been blown out of proportion to the degree that tucking drum heads has. I have trouble opening the tall white garbage bags that we use in our kitchen... that's way harder than tucking a drum head.

[Kona]

I tucked my rack and floor toms (batter & reso) and snare batter head with calf hide heads and bought un-glued wood flesh hoops and custom fitted the hoops to the drums. I made myself a tucking tool out of an ordinary teaspoon and it worked fine. Although for metal hoops a tucking tool like the one posted above would work better. You have to get more of a wrap on the metal hoop because the hide does not stick like it does to a wood flesh hoop.

[lonecomic]

Hi, haven't checked in for while, been working an a John Grey drum that's taking longer than I thought & will have a full report with pics soon.
But I was searching to see if there was info on calf head tucking & couldn't find anything with the search function. So I thought I'd start a thread to see if there's some 1st hand experience out there.
I tried my 1st tuck job for heads for this John Grey drum I'm making. I researched & read everything I could find about head tucking with a Google search, and ordered some untucked calf skins (4" larger diameter than the drum size). I had some old unusable oversized calf heads laying around & soaked them to get the flesh hoops to use; then I cut a section out of each to make the hoops the correct size for the drum. Sorry I didn't take pictures of the rabbit joint (I think that's what the step cut is called) I cut & glued together, rather than a scarf joint. Then I made a 'tucking tool with a large conduit strap & paint brush handle (I'll get a picture of this thing this weekend). Anyway, I started by soaking (in cold wated) the skins for 20 - 30 minutes & laid the hoop on the skin & began tucking at the 12:00 position, 3:00, 6:00 and 9:00. Then, wishing I had at least 2 more hands, it was basically a free for all trying to tuck in between tose spots while the original tucks would come undone. Eventually, I got it tucked all the way around, sloppy, and with many 'folds' which I smoothed out as good as possible. Then I mounted it loosely on the drum with the single flanged hoops & snare clips (or claws). As it dried for the next few days, it ended up looking just like a calfskin head. I'd hear it snap, crackle & pop now & then as it dried, & I tightened the tension rods just enought to make the ridge on the bearing edge form. So I ended up with some 'new' calfsin heads - the folds shrunk & smoothed out pretty much, and some are still there, but my mission accomplished! I'll try to add some pics to this thread in the next couple days.
So anybody else have a head tucking story to tell?

Man this takes me back.....
BUT In the old Haskell Harr basic drum book I believe they show it...

There are a few ways to make you life easy doing this...

When we did them at slingerland we had the proper tools to do this...

You need the head....
a flesh hoop
a tucking tool ( it looks like a very narrow putty knife with out 90 degree corners)

And something for the head to dry on.

YOU must allow about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of skin to wrpa around the hoop.
You start by placing the wet head on a flat surface..
Then you place the flesh hoop in the center of that..

Then you tuck in one section and then go to the opposite end
so you tuck it half to half
then half to half again
then half to half again
and so on until you are at a narrow gaps..pick a short section and tuck the head in under the hoop.

Carefully remove the head off of the smooth table top and place on a drum.

Put the counter hoop on it and then tighten down but only just enough to develop the collar or crown....Lets dry for a few days...
DONT place near the heater....Calf will pull unevenly and may pull out or crack the drum.
Buy the REMO Fidbreskyn and love yourself.
Excited

[Ludwig-dude]

Buy the REMO Fiberskyn and love yourself.
Excited

After attempting this a few times, with good success I might add, I can see how mylar heads became popular to begin with.....this is a pain in the butt to do!

Agreed, buy the fiberskyn heads and close enough.... :D

[Kona]

I haven't tried to tuck a calf hide onto a metal flesh-hoop. It's supposed to be a little more difficult. I had very little difficulty tucking my calf hide onto wood flesh-hoops mostly because of the natural glue in the hide that wants to stick to the wood hoop.

The calf hide heads have been on my rack,floor t & snare since Dec 22 09 - just over a month - with no problems yet. I keep them in a room where the temp varies only a few degees here and there. I've tuned them up and down a lot mostly because I like the sound of them high, med and low.....I can't get enough of how nice they sound on these 50yr old Gretsch drums. It's my first encounter with calf hide heads.

I don't think I'd want them on 'gigging' drums though - moving around - lots of temperature and or & even more critical, humidity changes etc. But, in the house - in the 'drum room' they are absolutely awesome!

Has anyone here had success tucking hides onto metal hoops?

[BUCKIE_B]

Re: Has anyone here had success tucking hides onto metal hoops?

Yes. I have many times removed the mylar from a worn modern plastic head in order to tuck skin on to the aluminum flesh hoop, and some of the vintage European drum makers lapped skin on to very thin and narrow steel hoops. Tucking skin on to metal just requires getting used to the "feel" of how moist skin reacts being lapped over and under the metal. In working with thinner metal hoops you may have to use something smaller than a clothes pin to hold each lap in place so that you can move on to the next lap without the previous one pulling out of the hoop as it draws up. Metal flesh hoops give a great advantage in terms of strength and consistency. They can also be reused. But this inflexibility can more easily result in the skin splitting if the weather suddenly becomes hot and dry, or if the skin is tucked too tightly on the hoop without allowing it enough slack.
Like metal hoops, wooden flesh hoops have both advantages and disadvantages. They're lightweight, flexible, and porous. Moistening skin releases its natural gel which acts as a natural glue. This gelatin clings to wood more readily than to metal as the head dries and sets. Once dry, a skin head performs the same function with either hoop material, metal resonance notwithstanding. However, wood tends to swell and warp when exposed to moisture. A moist skin head begins to immediately shrink, "draw up", and tighten, even as you are working with it. Unless the fully lapped head is quickly secured overnight on a shell or frame to form a "collar", the wood hoop will be warped out of shape by the shrinking skin into a twisted and tight "figure eight". While you may be able to salvage the skin from a bady warped head by wetting it and gently "unlapping" all the tucks, the wooden hoop itself will be unusable.
On occasion the joint of a wooden flesh hoop will come undone just from the amount of water in the moistened skin working on the glue used to close the joint. This is somewhat easier to remedy but no less frustrating and time consuming. Several small nails are often seen used for additional strength closing the joint on antique wooden flesh hoops.
Once a skin head is completely dry and fully set it can be removed and stored in a vertical position off the floor in a moisture and temperature controlled room. A supply of pre-mounted heads kept on especially made frames for maintaining tension and shape is the only way to prevent yourself staying up all night in a bus trying to tuck and mount a new head in time for the next show.
Choosing to perform live with calfskin heads requires non-stop attention to the climactic conditions, readiness to wipe down heads with a dampened cloth and/or having an electric space heater in or around the drums. And sometimes, even with the best preparations, climate, room atmosphere, and the drummer's own body heat and perspiration can all combine to make drumming on skin heads virtually impossible.

[BUCKIE_B]

The "rule of thumb" for sizing unmounted skin to tuck on a flesh hoop:

The skin selected must be approximately 4 inches larger in diameter than the diameter of the head you intend to make.

Thus, if you intend to tuck a 14" diameter head, you must start with a skin 18" in diameter and a 14" flesh hoop.

[cuquito717]

Its very easy look a film http://youtu.be/1Vt7Nh3nWjo