Ludwig Supraphonic Brass or not

[DonDrumsJr]

Hello all hope someone can help me out, recently picked up a B&O badge Ludwig Supraphonic. No Ludaloy sticker-small damper knob also. I noticed an area the size of a penny on the shell inside that looks like a shiny new penny.
Could it be a brass shell I have never seen this on my other Supraphonics?
Thanks for any informantion from anyone who has any experience with these snares. DDJ

[O-Lugs]

I think ALL B/O badge Supras are Ludalloy -NOT brass.

No B/O badge drum should have ever had a "small" rotary knob. The small rotary knobs even preceded the baseball bat! Pictures would be helpful!

[DonDrumsJr]

Here are a couple of shots hope this helps a bit.

[O-Lugs]

Well, off hand, I would guess the original 70's tone control (muffler) knob was replaced with an older, small rotary knob. To the best of my knowledge, a B/O badged drum would have never had a small rotary knob. That's my guess.

As far as if the shell is brass or not...if it's possible to weigh the drum, I think the brass shells were noticably heavier than the alloy versions. I have heard that the brass shells were often stamped with a "B" on the inside of the shell.

These drums were notorious for being "experimented" with by the drummers who used them. I remember when it was the general practice to remove the mufflers because they would often rattle. Then, years later, nobody can find where they put the original parts, so they get something in a pinch to replace it before attempting to sell it.

What is the number on that B/O badge? If you go to the home page here and click on the section about badges, you can narrow down the exact year of manufacture (or get real close). Check it out.

Also...more pictures of the entire drum would help, but at this point, my guess is that it's an alloy shell and a replaced tone control knob. The copper color could be related to the chrome plating process which involves electro-plating a layer of copper over the alloy and the following that copper plating with a nickel plating and then finally the chrome plating. I suspect that the copper area is just where the nickel/chrome plaing didn't adhere as well.

[DonDrumsJr]

That electro plating process makes perfect sense! I've actually seen the process on television, with the differant dipping tanks. Well this snare only had one pretty side left, the badge side. The pitting has started around the rest of the drum right at the bead. The replacement knob idea would stand to reason too! After a brief conversation with the previous owner, he always thought it was a genuine Ludaloy shell there was no noticeable differance in weight either! Thanks for the input my mind was racing with the idea this could have been a brass shell. I wont be playing this one much I picked it up for my oldest who expressed an interest in having a 70's era Ludwig..thanks again!

[O-Lugs]

The "pitting" is almost a sure way to know the shell is a Ludalloy shell. The reason being that the plating process did not work as well on the aluminum alloy. The brass shells are almost never pitted at all.. Although, just for the record, I have also seen many alloy shells with clean chrome, too...but the pitting is VERY indicative of an alloy shell. One of the nicest sounding snare drums ever made whether it's brass or not. In fact, some people prefer the alloy version!

[Rich K.]

I just received a later blue olive badge supra. It has the rounded corners on the badge. There's a "BR" stamped above the large muffler knob. I've been told that the "BR" stands for brass.

[DonDrumsJr]

Audio files for snare drums would be nice in a case like this, like they have for listening to new cymbals. I tripped over another odd ball Ludwig recently it's a 6.5 X 14 Super Sensitive with Bowtie Lugs instead of Imperial lugs, it appeared to be in untouched original condition too. Anyone ever seen one set up with the Bowtie lugs instead of Imperial lugs like this?

[O-Lugs]

I just received a later blue olive badge supra. It has the rounded corners on the badge. There's a "BR" stamped above the large muffler knob. I've been told that the "BR" stands for brass.

Is there any pitting on the shell?

[Rich K.]

There is no pitting on my shell. I was pretty shocked to find that BR stamp...I had always heard of it, but never saw one. I bought the drum assuming it was alloy, so it was a nice surprise. Sounds great, too! (But I always thought the regular alloy ones sound just as good as the brass ones.)

[NewDecade]

Well, off hand, I would guess the original 70's tone control (muffler) knob was replaced with an older, small rotary knob. To the best of my knowledge, a B/O badged drum would have never had a small rotary knob. That's my guess.

Just a thought here, as I continue to seek out info on Ludwig tone control year/specs

My '71 Ludwig Standard snare has a 3/4" (small rotary knob) tone control - as far as I know, it's the original. Does anybody know what year Ludwig made the switch to the larger 1" knob? It's gotta be later than '71 - unless they were using left overs up.

That pic also looks like a metal washer, not nylon - same as my '71 Standard. All of the large knobs I see have nylon washers. I know this is slightly off thread topic, but I think that it helps to illustrate the possibility that this snare has its original tone control, not a replacement.:2Cents:

[O-Lugs]

Well, since your drum is a Standard, it very well may have been a drum that came with some "leftover" parts at the factory. I have seen Standards with Classic lugs and others with Standard lugs -both completely legit and original. Standards' standards weren't all that standard.:D

[NewDecade]

Laughing H Thanks for the chuckle O
"Standards' standards weren't all that standard."

That's for sure. The more I look into them, the more peculiar their continuity (or lack thereof) seems to get. My snare has Standard lugs, a Ludwig script logo butt plate, a squarish logo P-83 strainer and the 3/4" knob muff.

I too, have seen classic lugs, 1" knob mutes, P-85 strainers, square logo butts... There are probably mixtures of all of the above.

In keeping with the original thread however...
I KNOW IT'S NOT BRASSLoLoLoLo

My hunt for info on Ludwig tone controls lead me here via VDF search - a light switch just clicked on that my Standard muff anomaly may not have relevance for a pointy B/O badge SupraDOH

True Thanks O-Lugs ~ you always give such great information and make me think. It's almost like.... educationalEye Ball

You are the vintage drum guru-viestYes Sir

[Jaye]

Well, since your drum is a Standard, it very well may have been a drum that came with some "leftover" parts at the factory. I have seen Standards with Classic lugs and others with Standard lugs -both completely legit and original. Standards' standards weren't all that standard.:D

Yes...what happened there was when Luddy decided to discontinue the Standard line...they had a bunch of certain parts left over (such as shells and badges)...and were out of a bunch of other parts which they had already stopped mfr'ing (such as lugs and mechanisms).

So...you see these drums with odd combinations of lugs and hardware and such. I like it. They are kinda cool and remind us that when it came to assembly, decisions needed to be made...:D