original rivets on Ludwig drum wrapping?!?!

[mschrant]

hi all.
i am seriously considering to go for this vintage 1970s ludwig kit on ebay germany
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tab%3DWatching
one thing that keeps me wondering is that there are rivets holding the wrapping on the toms together, as you can see on the pics. the seller told me that those rivets are original, and that ludwig attached them for a while to stop the wrap from going loose..... is that possible?
any ideas?
thanks and greetings from germany
mschrant

[backbeatkeeper]

Yes, Ludwig did use rivets on some kits. I haven't found the reason in my copy of "The Ludwig Book" but I do remember a conversation about the rivets on this or another forum.....

[ddduey]

Yes, Ludwig did use rivets on some kits. I haven't found the reason in my copy of "The Ludwig Book" but I do remember a conversation about the rivets on this or another forum.....

the Ludwig Book page 54 right hand side a third of the way down, explains why they used rivets.

[Mspartacus]

I hear that this was to combat the separation of the wrap at the seam since the wrap was prone to shrinking... but, yes totally original for a short time on the 6 ply shells.

[tillerva]

Yep late 70s, I have a set like that.

[Mike T]

someone was smokin crack at the factory when they approved that Idea...

[mschrant]

someone was smokin crack at the factory when they approved that Idea...

... true ... i've seen a few kits like that since then... never liked the idea, never liked the look... Lame

[vibes]

I have a 1979-80 kit with rivets. My wrap is still fine and holding great. I agree I had rather have had them just glued. I think that may have been the reason for them going to rivets. Something about the glue? but my drums are Silver Sparkle so the rivets are not very noticeable. Still great sounding drums.

[tdennis]

I've seen a lot of these drums. I play a 26" Gold Sparkle bass that is riveted, & has stayed intact. Unfortunately it's common to see the wrap shrink & tear away from the rivets.

[blairndrums]

I have a 1979-80 kit with rivets. My wrap is still fine and holding great. I agree I had rather have had them just glued. I think that may have been the reason for them going to rivets. Something about the glue? but my drums are Silver Sparkle so the rivets are not very noticeable. Still great sounding drums.

I toured the Ludwig plant in the early 80's,and they were doing the rivet thing then.

I stopped the tour and asked what was up with the rivets,and the tour lady said they were getting their pearl from Italy,and it kept shrinking on them...hence the rivets,

[calfskin]

That's funny , Italy has a strong tradition of pearl diving.

[Mspartacus]

I toured the Ludwig plant in the early 80's,and they were doing the rivet thing then.

I stopped the tour and asked what was up with the rivets,and the tour lady said they were getting their pearl from Italy,and it kept shrinking on them...hence the rivets,

I seem to recall that it had something to do with the pearl wraps as well. I have some wmp toms with the rivets. Aside from the silver sparkle that vibes mentioned, are there any other wraps you guys have seen rivets on? I once had a white cortex kit from this era, and no rivets.

[billnvick]

I have a couple of COW orphans from that time period with the rivets.
From what I understood from the Ludwig Book (p. 54), the rivets were used because OSHA wouldn't allow Ludwig to use the glue. HOWEVER, the chrome wrap on mine had both the rivets AND were glued down (and believe me, that metal wrap is a real pain to get off when it's glued down!).
Bill

[SlingerLynn]

I have a couple of COW orphans from that time period with the rivets.
From what I understood from the Ludwig Book (p. 54), the rivets were used because OSHA wouldn't allow Ludwig to use the glue. HOWEVER, the chrome wrap on mine had both the rivets AND were glued down (and believe me, that metal wrap is a real pain to get off when it's glued down!).
Bill

I'm not trying to refute what you, or anyone else, has said on this subject, because what I am about to tell you is hearsay. I recently spoke to a man about this. This man is a vintage parts distributor who says he knows Bill Ludwig (I'm guessing Bill III) personally. He says he asked about it and that Bill told him that for a good while Ludwig was having LOTS of wrap separation problems and, out of frustration, Bill himself told his crew something close to, "I don't care what you have to do to make it hold! Put rivets on the (blasphemous curse withheld) things!" The gentleman pointed out, as we all know, that even this didn't solve the problem. If this is true, I could see why they wouldn't want it going in the book.

Again, this is hearsay, but I have no reason to doubt this man unless someone else knows Mr. Ludwig and refutes this story.

[CaptainCrunch]

I have also always heard that the glue that worked was real nasty stuff, and with the advent of environmental/workplace safety regulations couldn't be used anymore. Now, all pearls shrink with time, so either the good glue held it well enough that it could only shrink right by the seams instead of all the way around, or maybe the Italian factories were dealing with being forced to use less unpleasant chemicals that resulted in a few years of extra-shrinky material before they sorted it all out.