What is the Slingerland sound?

[O-Lugs]

Some vintage drums were more similar than they were different. Gretsch drums always sounded kind of different to me. But what was the sound that made Slingerland? How were they different from, say...Ludwig or Rogers in terms of overall sound? Actually I would be curious to get your opinions on which drums you think sounded alike (if any) and which drums sounded different...and any theories as to why that might be. For example: Do you think Slingerland drums were more similar to: Ludwigs? Gretsch? Rogers? Was Rogers closer in sound to Gretsch or Ludwig? Etc.Burger Kin

Thanks

[Jim]

Well being a total novice you got me kind of curious with that question so I went on a youtube hunt for solos on different kits.. checked out a bunch from many different artists to see if I could hear any difference. The difference in venues, recording quality.. etc. make this pretty challenging.

Are there representative manufacturer endorsing artists that you or others recommend sampling from different periods to help answer this interesting question? Help

[Webmaster]

I would start with Gene Krupa on that sound quest... In my opinion, which holds little value in this area, the Slingerlands had a sloppier sound... Must be careful here... I guess when Gene playes his early snare drum stuff it was tuned a certain way and it was not super crisp... again my opinion...

I would leave the Buddy sound to TommyP, and he can probably give a little more insight into the different sounds of each company in relationship to Buddy. Of course Buddy did love his Fibes snare...if TommyP checks in he might help us with that since Buddy played Slingerland and Rogers...

Then again this can be answered probably by era's like 40's and 50's had a sound, 60's and 70's had a sound and 80's and 90's had a sound..

Since Krupa was in the earlier era, he was using calf heads and that is a big part of that sound at that time...A little sloppier!

Let's see if this spurs a little interest....

x-mas2

David

[Roscoe]

To my ears, it has more to do with the era.

BB's are crisp, ( think Vaudeville pit ) Radio Kings are big,
fat and bawdy ( think "We won the War!" ) Ludwig
is recording...

Hal Blaine and the Beatles.

On and On.

I'm currently pulling a '64 COB Krupa Sound King that may as
well be the best drum ever made...

For the Twist, 'ya know?

[Jim]

Maybe if people had a standard way of attaching a short little .wav file under each drum in the snare drum or drum set gallery so you could see the drums and hear their sound by clicking a "hear this drum" button.

That would be a pretty cool way of picking up the different tones from different eras and makers. Probably launch some interesting tuning threads to.

Just an idea.. I don't know the technology or time required to do it but I know I would I like it.

[O-Lugs]

Jim,

Yeah! That would be cool...but, it's like you mentioned...It probably all boils down to a few things with most of the vintage drums (modern drums, too -in a different way) and that is:

1.) Drumhead choice
2.) Tuning preference
3.) The listener's vantage point

I once heard a bass drum on a recording that sounded H-U-G-E...only to find out later that it was an 18" drum tuned really low!

Plus, how a band/drum kit is recorded makes a big difference.

I really think a lot of the distinctions among vintage drums have more to do with the style of hardware they used. The Slingerland "sound" may well be more related to the Slingerland look. The Slingerland LOOK was stick-saver rims and WMP (at least to me).

Gretsch was probably an exception because of the fact that they utilized diecast rims which ultimately focused the tone more. But, that also made Gretsch drums LOOK different, too. I think they got perceived as being "more deluxe" than all the other drums that used triple-flange rims.

Rogers had what many believe to be the ultimate looking hardware with their Swivomatic line.

Ludwigs were the ubiquitous drums -they were everywhere. They were practical. They were a trusted name and many "first real drum sets" were Ludwigs. Their designs worked and they made sense. The quality control wasn't the best, but then again, few of the Big Four manufacturers had good QC -outside of Rogers, that is.

IF we could produce four drum sets (configured from equally-dimensioned drums, of course) from a time capsule and they were exactly as they had come off the assembly line 40-50 years ago -untouched...would any of us be able to tell the brand based soley upon the sound -like, as in a blindfold test? It would be an interesting test for sure. I doubt if I could pick out which one was the Slingerland from the Ludwig from the Rogers....I might be able to pick the Gretsch for the reason I mentioned earlier, but the others? I don't know if I could or not.

[Jim]

Hmmm... a time capsule control group of drum kits from the 40's to 70's.

Let's do a movie on it.. "Gene and Buddy's Excellent Adventure"

Maybe at one of these big drum shows they could do a vintage drummers version of the Pepsi taste test. If you can match the sound with drum maker you win a t-shirt.

[O-Lugs]

Good idea! I like it!Burger Kin

[Bebop]

Slingerland's had a "fat" sound, just oozing with tone..
Thats all I know.

[O-Lugs]

Thanks for the responses. I guess I should now ask more about the comparative sounds. For instance, how do you think the Slingerland sound would compare to the Rogers sound? -or to the Ludwig sound? or to the Gretsch sound? I mean, if the Slingerland sound is described as "fat" or "sloppy" or "loose" then what is the Ludwig sound in comparison? I guess it helps to have some comparative terms in light of the fact that what's "fat" to one person might be "skinny" to another! ;)Burger Kin

[Bebop]

Thanks for the responses. I guess I should now ask more about the comparative sounds. For instance, how do you think the Slingerland sound would compare to the Rogers sound? -or to the Ludwig sound? or to the Gretsch sound? I mean, if the Slingerland sound is described as "fat" or "sloppy" or "loose" then what is the Ludwig sound in comparison? I guess it helps to have some comparative terms in light of the fact that what's "fat" to one person might be "skinny" to another! ;)Burger Kin
I guess I would say that Ludwigs have a tighter sound and
a high pitch. Gretsch are insanely "warm" sounding.

[O-Lugs]

Interesting. Again the terms used in describing a sound are often confusing (at least to me they are!) because I would have described Gretsch as "higher pitched" and "tighter" and then used the "warm" term to describe vintage Ludwigs' sound. I think the reason for that is because a lot of the old jazz guys played Gretsch drums and they always had them tuned high and..."tight" and then the old Ludwigs' thin Weathermaster heads in combination with the thin lightweight shells and wide roundover bearing edges gave those drums a "rounder" less-defined tone..."warmer".

It's like trying to describe a color. "What does blue look like?" Umm...It's "cool" Umm...It's "deep"...but it's also "light" and "airy"

LOL! See what I mean?

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that it's really not as much about the sound as much as it is about the LOOK and the VIBE of the NAME on the drums...even the shape of the badge playes into it.

Plus, there were SO many inconsistencies about how accurately vintage drums were built. Some of the drums rolled off the line might have been a little under-sized...some others might have been a bit over-sized. The under-sized shells that didn't bind against the drumhead's flesh hoops would be easier to tune and the over-sized ones would be more difficult to tune. Some drums edges might get cut more accurately than others...etc. So, at the end of the day, some drums, even though built from the same raw materials didn't always turn out the same way. But, like I say, I don't think people took much notice of things like shell thickness...bearing edge profiles...the type of tone control a drum had/didn't have...etc. Drums were drums. They went "boom". ;)


Maybe even a better focus to put in this discussion is WHY you think the sounds of a certain manufacturer's drums sound different from the next manufacturer's drums. For example, Slingerland's and Ludwig's shells were pretty similar...but Slingerland had the "Stick Saver" rims where the top flange curved INWARD instead of outward. Could that aspect have been the aspect to make Slingerland sound different than the otherwise very similar Ludwig drum?

With Gretsch , there were several things that were structurally different than other contemporary manufacturer's drums. The shells didn't have re-rings. The edges were slightly different. The diecast rims were different. The round badge drums were not "vented" (as far as I know)... So there are more clear-cut distinctions between Gretsch and the others. Plus, they also did look different because of those diecast rims. They looked more "substantial" -more "deluxe", if you will. And, all things combined, they did produce (and here comes another term) a more "focused" sound - a "drier" sound.

"Fat"

"Dry"

"Focused"

"Sloppy"

"Loose"

"Tight"

"Warm"

"Biting"

"Singing"

"Dead"

DOH

[Danalog]

O,
Slinglands have a fat sound with amazing overtones...the ones that sound the best imo are the 3 ply shells. I dont think the 5 ply shells from the 70's were dirty sounding at all.
I've had more engineers compliment my slingerlands over the tons of other vintage kits theyve used.

[Roscoe]

Maybe if people had a standard way of attaching a short little .wav file under each drum in the snare drum or drum set gallery so you could see the drums and hear their sound by clicking a "hear this drum" button.

That would be a pretty cool way of picking up the different tones from different eras and makers. Probably launch some interesting tuning threads to.

Just an idea.. I don't know the technology or time required to do it but I know I would I like it.

Mr. Heath and family have beat us to the punch...

Check this out.

http://www.myoldguitars.com/wordpress/category/drums/rogers-dynasonic/

[onemat]

Mr. Heath and family have beat us to the punch...

Check this out.

http://www.myoldguitars.com/wordpress/category/drums/rogers-dynasonic/

Where does he play the second snare? I couldn't spot it?

Matt

[JohnG]

Mr. Heath and family have beat us to the punch...

Check this out.

http://www.myoldguitars.com/wordpress/category/drums/rogers-dynasonic/


Great site....that 5" kicks royal butt............