"that Great Gretsch Sound"

[OldSchool]

The only Gretsch snare that I've currently got in my modest collection is a 6-lug model from the early 60s.

I purchased the drum simply as a collector, not as a player. Whenever I seem to discuss Gretsch snares with personnel at my local vintage drum shops they all seem to feel that the vintage Gretsch snares were some of the worst sounding snare drums of the 60s among the Ludwigs, Rogers and Slingerlands. If that is, in fact, the case was "That Great Gretsch Sound" simply a misnomer?

I'm hoping to hear from players that actually used vintage Gretsch snares at one time or another so that they can let me know how they felt they compared with the other American drum manufacturers of the early 60s.

Thanks!

[O-Lugs]

I had one once and it was one of the worst sounding snare drums I have ever heard. It was dead no matter what heads I tried. I couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

The term that great Gretsch sound is marketing and nothing more...in my opinion. I love Gretsch drums...don't get me wrong. If only I would have bought the several round badge kits I used to see selling for 5-6 hundred bucks back in the nineties, I would be a rich man right now! Party The difference in the Gretsch sound lies mainly in their use of diecast rims. People will also argue about the un-reinforced Jasper shells as being the difference...but I think it has less of an effect than the diecast rims. Other than those rims, all the other contemporaries of that time used reinforced shells and triple flange rims...Slingerland's top flange was reversed to form the infamous "stick saver" shape, but they were basically the same mass as Ludwig's and Rogers' triple flange rims.

Gretsch aslo cost a little more than other drums because the diecast rims are quite a bit more expensive than triple flange. More cost = More prestige (to some). Like, "Who is capable of owning the most prestigious kit" -only the BEST drummers, of course!D' Drummer

That's my 2 cents of the subject. Violin

To recap: Diecast rims were/are the difference in the sound of Gretsch drums.

Some say that since the round badge drums weren't vented, they sounded different. Maybe it was a combination of all the above. But, what it boils right down to is that someone liked the tone of some drums one day and said, "Wow, those Gretsch drums sound great!"

[Kona]

Hi
I bought a new Gretsch kit in 1969 and played them in a number of bands until the mid 70's. I was not satisfied with my Gretsch snare. I traded it for a Premier 2000 around 1973. However; I sold the complete kit (5 piece) including 7 Zildjian cymbals, Asba (Caroline) pedal - soft cases and all for $950 in 1976. I wish I had that kit today! I haven't played since 1976, but have recently (May 10th) ordered a new Gretsch shell pack - it should be here by mid September - can't wait!

I loved playing my Gretsch drums - but I clearly remember not liking the snare (hardware too was bad).

Cheers,

Kona

[Antipodes]

I'm another negative on the Gretsch snares. Kits were fab (have played on but never owned) but I owned (admittedly an early 80s) 6 1/2" deep wooden snare and I could only ever get one tuning out of it and that tunes wasn't particularly great. And I parted with a very nice Camco COB to be able to afford it at the time, a decision I've regretted ever since.

Also been in a rehearsal room recently using a borrowed kit including a Gretsch 5" metal snare (again, early 80's I think) and it really is a stinker.

All respect for the other stuff though.....

[OldSchool]

ALL..... Appreciate the feedback regarding the Gretsch snares. Apparently, my local "experts" aren't the only ones who weren't impressed with "That Great Gretsch Sound"; in reality, it was just the contrary!Keep on Pl

[Roscoe]

The only Gretsch in the fleet here is a 6-shooter as well.

Mine is a round badge #4105 "Dixieland" from the late 50's.

A combination of an un-reinforced maple shell with great sweeping snare
beds, minimal lug contact and die-cast hoops produce a bang that's unbelievable.

The ups and downs of the Gretsch company resulted in really hit or miss quality throughout the decades however.

I've played kits ( round and stop sign badge ) that were a mix of awesome and awful. That was a big problem for a while.

And if they go out of round, you've got a planter on your hands.

A gold plated 4160 would be a heckuva score, though...

[wayne]

Gretsch snares can sound boxy,but i think due to the 42 strand wires.They,re just not neccessary imo.Also,there is nothing magical about Gretsch drums,now thier guitars...thats a different storyCool

[davidh]

I have a 4157 model 14 x 5 wood shell that sounded dreadful until I sorted out the snare bed. When I got it in the 1980s it was cut like a rough slash with a rasp into the edge about as wide as the snares and about 1/4" deep. Now that is fine for a calf head but no good at all for anything else. In desperation I took it to George Potters happily nearby in Aldershot who do all the drums for the British Army and have done for about 150 years. They recut the snare bed so it is now a very gradual dishing starting midway between the lug nearest the snare and the next one along, about 9" or 10" in an barely visible arc. This sorted things out and now I use it for bebopish stuff with Puresound snares along with my later 1970s 18x14, 14x4, 12x10 Gretsch kit. I like "that gretsch sound" as you can really hit them hard and they never stop giving a good sound. I think the cast hoops have something to do with it - they do kind of thicken the sound. I have a 1965 Ludwig Downbeat too with a totally different sound that I also love which is far better for louder types of music.

[Mike Curotto]

I concur re: the snare drums, I never liked the sound of Gretsch snare drums...I do hear that the bass drums and toms sound good and are sought after...

Mike Curotto

[O-Lugs]

Gretsch snares can sound boxy,but i think due to the 42 strand wires.They,re just not neccessary imo.Also,there is nothing magical about Gretsch drums,now thier guitars...thats a different storyCool


Yes, indeed, wayne. I remember thinking "Why?" when I saw those gigantic snare wires!

42-strand on anything is overkill, imo.

[Kona]

I will definately be replying here again (see my earlier reply here) after I receive, tune and play my new Gretsch Renown Purewood Mahogany 6pc shell pack I ordered in early May. I was told it would be 3-4 months getting here because there were no more kits available in North America when I ordered it.

I will be paying close attention to my snare for sure!

Interesting comments here regarding Gretsch snare drums.

Cheers,

Kona

[sabshga]

Wow! I'm floored. I have a wide variety of snare drums. I believe 5 of them are Gretsch: Two 5x14 RBs, one in duco lacquer, one in green glass wrap, a 6.5x14 from around 1940 with rocket lugs in gold sparkle, a mahogany marching snare 10x14 and a reissue COB 5x15. All of the drums have great character and are very playable. I've got snares from all the vintage American drum companies (and a couple of non US) and I can't find a stinker in the bunch. My list includues:
Slingerland single ply radio king 50s
Ludwig Pioneer, 50s lacquer finish wiith NOB hardware
Ludwig & Ludwig wood from the 30s
Leedy & Ludwig wood from the early 50s
Rogers 1980 Big R wood Dyno
Rogers Holiday
Rogers Power Tone
Noble & Cooley 7x14 single ply
Ayotte 6.5x14 wood hoop
Trick 5x14
Pearl 3.5x14 brass free float
Trixon Telstar (two different head sizes)
Premier 4x13 Birch
Spaun 5x13 vented acrylic
2 Camco 5x14s 1 tuxedo 1 aristocrat

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. But I truly believe that unless a drum is just broken, you can tune it and make some great music with it.

All of these drums sound really good. 42 strand wires are an option, I think a pretty cool one if you like to mix a lot of buzz rolls into your playing and if you want to go for a raunchier, looser back beat sound for a New Orleans vibe. I use lots of different snare wire counts.

I do prefer die cast rims but triple flanged are cool two.

Of course the "Great Gretsch Sound" is marketing, it's not a quote. I think their toms sound fine. I have a 3 ply 13 that is especially tunable but all the rack and floor toms I have sound great, but did need to have their edges cut. I've found the kicks to be quite full sounding. I think heads tend to fit these drums on the tight side, so I would recommend trying them with Aquarian American Vintage heads for a better fit.

I will mention that my first snare drum was a 5x14 RB in BDP. I was a teenager and I had the snare sounds from recorded music in my head and I couldn't figure out why this snare didn't sound that way. I sold it and played a Ludwig 400 for years. As I got older I bought more snares and got better at tuning and got more attuned to having a unique sound and became more flexible in my sound requirements. So now, as I said, a snare would have to be down right defective for me not to be able to get a musical sound out of it.

My 5 cents worth.

Gary

[the_drum_dad]

Well said Gary. I agree, you can get a good sound out of most snare drums. It just might not be the sound you are after at that point in time.

[wayne]

Hey Sab....if you ever decide to part with the Rogers big R Dyna,let me know.

[sabshga]

PM me what you think is fair value. It's new old stock, as mint as a thing could possibly be. I'm just keeping it for speculation, I don't play it. I'm leaving town today for South Africa, back Sunday AM.

[aldrums01]

hi there,
i bought a gretsch snare on ebay from the states (i'm in australia). it cost me plenty to win it and then more to ship it here. it's a late 50's-early 60's model,8 lug, 6 ply, no sticker but with the silver interior, faded cold sparkle with die cast hoops and nowhere near pristene condition.... but i knew that from the pictures, what i wanted was the 'great gretsch sound'... well...boy...when i got this thing home i couldn't believe i had spent all this money for such a boxy sounding drum but i didn't believe it was designed to sound this way. the snare beds were huge compared to anything i had seen before but i wasn't about to muck around with the shell as i was sure it had come out of the factory that way. then thanks to this web sight, i discovered that the shells are larger in diameter than normal, i don't know why but they are and that remo batter heads are too tight a fit! and these guys were talking about gently hack-sawing through the aluminium hoop of the batter head without cutting too much of the plastic head itself....in my desperation i attempted this and to my surprise the remo ambassador head could now sit loosely over the shell's bearing edge, and once i re-attached the top hoop and played it i noticed the drum had opened up dramatically......it's a very nice playable snare, and i think, a good example of what these beauties are meant to sound like.

[Boomka]

Yes, indeed, wayne. I remember thinking "Why?" when I saw those gigantic snare wires!

42-strand on anything is overkill, imo.

It really depends on the drum. I have a Mapex Phosphour Bronze that sounded a little clangy until I put 42-strands on it. Now she says POW!

[sabshga]

g'dye mate. I wrote the hacksaw note. When you get a chance try an Aquarian American Vintage on the drum. It is the right amount of oversized to fit without the surgery.

[Randall Molloseau]

I had a Gretsch snare round badge and it also sounded dead. Also tracked with one in the studio and wasn't impressed at all. That was their slogan and not a reality. Randall

[Kona]

Wow! I'm floored. I have a wide variety of snare drums. I believe 5 of them are Gretsch: Two 5x14 RBs, one in duco lacquer, one in green glass wrap, a 6.5x14 from around 1940 with rocket lugs in gold sparkle, a mahogany marching snare 10x14 and a reissue COB 5x15. All of the drums have great character and are very playable. I've got snares from all the vintage American drum companies (and a couple of non US) and I can't find a stinker in the bunch. My list includues:
Slingerland single ply radio king 50s
Ludwig Pioneer, 50s lacquer finish wiith NOB hardware
Ludwig & Ludwig wood from the 30s
Leedy & Ludwig wood from the early 50s
Rogers 1980 Big R wood Dyno
Rogers Holiday
Rogers Power Tone
Noble & Cooley 7x14 single ply
Ayotte 6.5x14 wood hoop
Trick 5x14
Pearl 3.5x14 brass free float
Trixon Telstar (two different head sizes)
Premier 4x13 Birch
Spaun 5x13 vented acrylic
2 Camco 5x14s 1 tuxedo 1 aristocrat

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. But I truly believe that unless a drum is just broken, you can tune it and make some great music with it.

All of these drums sound really good. 42 strand wires are an option, I think a pretty cool one if you like to mix a lot of buzz rolls into your playing and if you want to go for a raunchier, looser back beat sound for a New Orleans vibe. I use lots of different snare wire counts.

I do prefer die cast rims but triple flanged are cool two.

Of course the "Great Gretsch Sound" is marketing, it's not a quote. I think their toms sound fine. I have a 3 ply 13 that is especially tunable but all the rack and floor toms I have sound great, but did need to have their edges cut. I've found the kicks to be quite full sounding. I think heads tend to fit these drums on the tight side, so I would recommend trying them with Aquarian American Vintage heads for a better fit.

I will mention that my first snare drum was a 5x14 RB in BDP. I was a teenager and I had the snare sounds from recorded music in my head and I couldn't figure out why this snare didn't sound that way. I sold it and played a Ludwig 400 for years. As I got older I bought more snares and got better at tuning and got more attuned to having a unique sound and became more flexible in my sound requirements. So now, as I said, a snare would have to be down right defective for me not to be able to get a musical sound out of it.

My 5 cents worth.

Gary

Interesting post. Wow - nice drum collection there!!

My name's Gary too by the way (Kona on the forum).

The Gretsch shellpack I ordered last May (see earlier post here) arrived late August. I'm very impressed with my Gretsch Renown Purewood African Mahogany shellpack including the snare! It's a 6pc with Istanbul cymbals (one Zilbell), Valje bongos, Pearl 2000 hat and snare stands, Pearl Ash block (nice!), Pearl tam (mounted above my Valjes) and Gretsch Blackhawk Mighty Mini 10" snare and other various percussion put together in and around a nice Gibraltar dbl bass rack.

Here's the kit so far........

[reother4]

What do the gretsch COBs sound like?

[PK Drums]

I've only played the COB versions a few times sitting in at jazz jam sessions and I thought they sounded great.
The Wood round badge, that is another story entirely. Of all of my 12 snares, the Round Badges are without a doubt the worst sounding. A lot of people say that it is the diecast rims, but I personally don't think that is the case. I think the sound comes from the snare beds, which as someone mentioned earlier, are cut extremely deep.

I also own a new Gretsch Free Floating Snare with diecast hoops and it is a very good snare for the money. It sounds great, and has a very large tuning range. I'd like to think that over the years Gretsch has perfected their sound.

As for the drumsets themselves, we had a stop sign badge 13/16/22 kit at my university which we all loved playing. Of course it had a supraphonic snare which I don't think I need to say sounded great.

I really think the problem people have with Gretsch is their round badge era snares. The rest of their drums sound great.

[emmojo]

Back in the day, in my circles, Gretsch was at best, considered 3rd class behind "The most famous name on drums", Rogers , Slingerland ,Premier and then Gretsch. Nothing personal, that's just the way it was .

[RickP]

My first Professional kit was a natural maple lacquer Gretsch 18/12/14 with a matching 5 x 14 wood shell snare drum.I picked one with the 42 strand snares as I thought it would add some articulation and crispness to the sound.The toms and bass drum sounded great and I never had any problems with them.The snare on the othr hand was a dog! I grew to really hate this snare drums it was boxy and the throw off would release at the most inopportune time.I ended up trading it in a few years later.The funny thing about it was I met the guy that bought it a few years back and he told me he had to get the bearing edges and snare bed recut and even then the snare didn't sound great. Go figure.

[mcjnic]

The only 'real' Gretsch kits I've played, I didn't own. I didn't like them. They were kind of boring. I did own several pseudo Gretsch kits. Among these, I had a Catalina Birch and a Blackhawk kit. They were pretty cool. Neither one was 'great'. I did some work on the Blackhawk shells and they began to wake up and sound out, but they were never 'great'. So, I'm not much of a fan of the drums. I prefer something that's got personality and makes a statement. There is no particular brand that accomplishes this. Currently, I like my vintage Ludwig kit and my vintage Slingerland kits. I've also liked the sound that the Pearl African Mahogany shells made. They were quite exquisite. My favorite snares have been my custom Remo, a DW, and a Yamaha Birch Custom with wood hoops. That's really about it. Oh wait...there was a Premier snare I had years ago. It was a brass shell with wood inside. That one was kind of neat. Oddly enough, I never liked my Ludwig chrome snares. I've owned quite a few. My first kit was a 1964 Red Sparkle Ludwig with 'that' chrome snare. I was too young and too stupid to be able to get a good sound out of it. So, year after year I purchased Ludwig snare after Ludwig snare (all chrome) and never really liked them. I guess I'm a wood snare guy. I've played for about 45 years and still don't like them. Strange. I'm that .001 percent, I guess. Geez! Did I get that far off topic? Sorry. ummmmmm......oh yeah. I don't like 'that great Gretsch sound'. There.

[O-Lugs]

LOL @ my earlier reply! Geez! Burger Kin I actually really like the way Gretsch sound -especially the tom tom sound when applied to jazz. I think I'm starting to "hear" the sound of a time gone by. I'm hearing the look and the cigarette smoke -lots of things that made things look and sound the way they did. Life was in "Chromacolor"

Please pardon me if I contradict myself from time-to-time. I'm getting old and my mind is....is...is...what was I saying again?Sailing2

[caddywumpus]

The Gretsch round badge snares I've played on all sounded really bad. I thought the cheap $40 student snares next to them sounded much better.

What a trip. The round badge kick and toms are still great sounding, though.

[O-Lugs]

Yes. I still don't like the Gretsch snare sound. But I have grown to really like the tom tom and some of the bass drum sounds I've heard in recent months.

[lucky]

Would the sound be attributed to the bearing edge? I thought Gretsch used a 30 degree edge that was kind of the reverse from the other drum companies. It went from the outside of the shell towards the inside, correct? And the diecast hoops I am sure played a big part.