View Full Version : The aging process
05-29-2007, 07:51 AM
I have an opportunity to p/u a couple of 50,s Istanbul K,s for a good price.I know that wood drums mellow with age,but i have no idea what happens to cymbals as they age.Do they change at all,better, worse,??...Im going to play them before i buy them but my lack of knowledge re; "aging" has me a bit nervous.
05-29-2007, 09:09 AM
I have a related questions on this one. I have a few early 60s Zildjians. Personally I prefer the patina and age on them although they are not badly aged.
So the question is... Is it square to clean and polish your vintage cymbals to have a new like shine???
05-29-2007, 02:42 PM
I like the shiney new look for cymbals,but i heard its against the law to clean old Zilgys..especially the K,s:o
05-29-2007, 08:24 PM
I wish I could remember what my A's sounded like when they were brand-new. I still have them after nearly 35 years! I love the sound of them, but I wonder how much of that is just plain familiarity.
I should mention that I once had a chance to pick out some cymbals for a friend and I had a pretty good budget to work with, so I decided to try out some of those Avedis & Cie. vintage cymbals (VERY expensive!) and they were BEAUTIFUL!! In fact, I thought they were the most gorgeous sounding cymbals I have ever played. They were brand-new, but apparently, the Avedis Zildjian Company "ages" some lines of cymbals and the Avedis & Cie. cymbals were some that get put into "the vault" (?) and go through some kind of sped-up aging process. Therefore, just based upon that, I would determine that aging cymbals definitely must do something. What exactly? I don't know.
As far as old K's... Some are great and some are not. There is a lot more inconsistency to them. I have heard both good and bad ones. With those, it's always a crapshoot when it comes to sound. However, I think even the "dogs" are a safe investment as far as money goes. It depends on what your "good price" is, I guess. I saw a really beautiful old K about 10 years ago and the guy wanted $1000.00 for it! I thought he was crazy...but maybe it is I who was crazy!
05-30-2007, 10:15 AM
Wayne the best advice is buy with your ears not with your eyes. Don't buy them just because they are Ks and are supposed to sound good. Treat them like any other cymbals and only buy them if they sound good.
Bronze does get a little more brittle with age, but that shouldn't impact this decision unless you were buying them to play rock or blues. If your using them in a jazz setting they should be fine.
Let us know what you do.
05-31-2007, 08:28 AM
Typically sound wise, you are going to get a more mellow sound with aging and patina build up on bronze cymbals. I think you lose some of the sharpness and "attack" if that is the right word. That is generally a good thing IMHO. But you may also lose some of the darkness as well (lower overtones). Cleaning will definitely change the sound - at least in my experience with Paiste Formula 602's. The jury is out as to whether cleaning is a good thing or not but aging/cleaning is definitely a consideration when buying vintage cymbals.
From the point of view of strength, copper alloys like brass and bronze work harden so that means that as they are deformed they will harden. With harness comes brittleness. In theory, each time you hit the cymbal you get a very slight deformation and so over time the cymbal should get harder and more brittle. It's not from age, its from the actual work hardening that takes place over a lifetime of playing. In practice, I think the amount of hardening that takes place is minimal and hardly affects sound. I would not be afraid of vintage cymbals unless you are a basher. But that said, if you are a basher, you probably don't want thinner cymbals, which most vintage pies are.
The big thing to watch out for, IMHO, is major deformation to the cymbal such as dents, warpage, home drilled rivet holes, etc. This will change the sound of a thin cymbal way more than patina or general aging. You can make a good cymbal bad in a heartbeat.
05-31-2007, 12:08 PM
Well i tried the 15" Istanbul hats at practice last night and was pleased with the sound.Not knocked out,like i was hoping.They are typical 60,s Zilgy sound which is somewhat dark and overall quite mellow.I hate saying things like "these cymbals suit country or this drum suits rock".I dont buy that stuff,you either like the gear or you dont.For 1000 bucks for the pair i think im passing on them.Would i pay 500 for them?...Of course,only because i know i could get my money back or make a few.I dont think they,re worth a grand,but thats just me....You might think they,re heaven sentParty ......What i did enjoy was playing 15"hats!!I think i,ll look around for a pr in the 250-300$ range.....any ideas???
06-04-2007, 04:06 PM
Most post was simply to inform folks that they may crack when used for rock or other louder gigs. By all means its your stuff use it as you may if you dig the sound. I just was throwing out my experience that if your going to invest in a pair you might want to think twice as they devalue substantially when they are cracked.
As Wayne pointed out for $1000 you really need to love them and know they are going to last.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.