LUDWIG STANDARD by PAISTE cymbals?

[Ludwig Guy]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me a little bit about "Ludwig Standard by Paiste" cymbals? I see them on sale often on eBay. I know that they were produced in the 60's and that some were Swiss made and others made in Germany. Which ones are worth more and which sound better? Also, were these cymbals considered to be professional quality or semi-pro? Thanks for your help.

Ludwig Dude

[the_drum_dad]

Keep in mind there are 2 different cymbals.

"Ludwig" and "Ludwig Standard" both made by Paiste. These cymbals were bundled with Ludwig drum kits in the 60's.

"Ludwigs" were made in Switzerland and are probably made from B20 alloy. They are basically a thinner version of the Formula 602 cymbal and are pretty much identical to the "Super" series by Paiste. These would be considered a mid-line cymbal. There is a high degree of variation in the construction of these cymbals so sound quality is "hit or miss".

"Ludwig Standards" were made in Germany and are made from NS12 alloy. These would be considered beginner cymbals. They have even more variability than the Ludwigs. I think they would be equivalent to the "Dixie" series by Paiste. That said, some Ludwig Standards, as well as Dixies were also produced in Switzerland. It appears that some of the larger size cymbals may have been produced in Switzerland possible due to limitations in manufacturing capacity in Germany or maybe it was due to quality issues. So, you will also see Ludwig Standards with the made in Switzerland stamp also.

The story goes that Ludwig stopped using these cymbals due to breakage issues and the fact that they were continually replacing cymbals. Both of these alloys tend to be brittle so with thinner cymbals so this is believable to a certain extent.

Personally, I have heard excellent examples of the Ludwig Standards as well as some real dogs. I have not heard Ludwigs and they seem to be rarer on E-bay.

Good Luck!

[Ludwig Guy]

Hi Drum Dad,

Thanks for the info. It is very helpful. I have seen Ludwig Standard cymbals that were Swiss made on eBay. Do you think that those sound a lot better than the ones produced in Germany? Here's a link to one Swiss made Ludwig Standard on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Paiste-Ludwig-Standard-Vintage-60s-Crash-Cymbal-Thin_W0QQitemZ290090925599QQcategoryZ41445QQrdZ1QQ ssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Thanks,

Ludwig Dude

[backbeatkeeper]

In following the link posted in the earlier thread, I checked out the cymbal and saw who's selling it. Just my opinion, but this Stewy guy likes to buy kits and part them out for ridiculous prices. Most of his stuff is BIN and he does have a lot of different things, but I've checked his buying and selling history on Ebay and some of the stuff he's bought and turned over for selling is ridiculously high in the asking price. I'm not against making a buck, heck I wish I had that kind of dough to spend on drums, but I would do it for collecting. I just can't believe that there is a lot of people that would pay for that. I guess some people can't wait for something, got to have it now........

Example: 1st link bought for, 2nd link selling for....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150091292056


http://cgi.ebay.com/Slingerland-Drum-Set-Snare-Bass-Tom-20-13-14-14-60s_W0QQitemZ290090908326QQcategoryZ64442QQtcZphot oQQcmdZViewItem

[the_drum_dad]

Dude:
To me that pricing is too high. It appears to be a fairly decent cymbal based on description but the underside of the bell shows some significant trauma. It's very telling that he did not show a close up of the top side of the bell. Looks like this cymbal was improperly mounted....possibly no felts. It could be a nice cymbal but without hearing it or seeing it, I would be concerned.

This is a very thin. cymbal based on the weight given. This is just my opinion but bell damage on thin cymbals really tends to affect the sound. You can make a nice cymbal into a dog in a hurry. Also if a thin cymbal is bent (even slightly) in any way and then re-bent flat again, you never get the same sound. The bending changes the hardness at the bend and the original hammered sound is gone forever.

In my opinion, you could spend $50-75 more and get a nice Formula 602 medium and never worry once about how it is going to sound.

BBKeeper.
Yes, I've seen this guy before as well. To be honest, I think he did get the Slingys for a great price. I guess if he can flip them, more power to him. My only concern with guys like this is that they tend to drive up the price of everything vintage. I'm not a Slingerland afficionado so I don't know accurate value. What do you guys think these drums are really worth?

[backbeatkeeper]

Drum Dad,
Yeah he got the Slingys for a good price, and I don't know what they are really worth. I will say that selling them for 3 times what he paid for them is not worth that much.....

[the_drum_dad]

I agree. Seems too much...especially for an opening bid.

[Webmaster]

Well, the badges on that set are Shelbyville. That is the first complete Shelbyville set I have ever seen.

I have seen pieces before and possibly another set on another forum but never a complete matching set like that in that condition.

Many people probably missed that on the original auction and that is why they went for that price.

Other then that he has priced them based on the store and there are many ways to look at selling on Ebay.

Firstly items in stores have cheaper listing fees and higher final value fees and it is common for things in stores to be priced higher.

A set like that would not have a selling history, so its value depends on who really wants it and he probably is testing the waters.

I will on occasion put things in stores at a price higher, because I have no idea what it is worth. Then as "watchers" start to appear I drop the price or send it out to auction.

Yes, Stewy has a lot of stuff he is selling and he does buy a lot on Ebay. To keep things in the Ebay store is rather cheap per month and you just never know who has the money or will pay the price.

It is all part of selling on Ebay... If it was all priced right, he would have nothing to sell!

David

[Webmaster]

The same goes for that cymbal in regards to testing the water and keeping it in the store.

And on another note, just a few years ago if someone priced an Acrolite at $125 we thought they were crazy, now the 60's Acros are approaching the $200 level.

Even a 70's Acrolite sells for $125 when you could not sell them for more then $50 at one time.

I just purchased a 60's Acro on a BIN for $65 and that was with the shipping!!! I can easily turn around and sell it for $175.

David

[the_drum_dad]

Yeah, you got a deal there on that Acro. Actually, I remember maybe 5 or 6 years ago, Acros were selling fairly high like they are again now. Everybody was talking them up on the forums. I think a lot of people dug theirs out of the basement and the attic and the market got kind of saturated. A lot of items seem to be like that on e-bay. Ebb and flow I guess.

[mattkinel]

I did that same thing. I found a local music shop with a 40's radio king set WMP, original calf heads, wood block, cowbell, mount, hihat stand. 14x12 mount 24x14 bass 16x16 floor. Brand new condition except for what appeared to be a cigarette burn on the floor tom. Some didiot trying to be cool put his smoke out on his drum. I got it for $400, played it for a bit and sold it on ebay with a BIN of $2200 plus shipping. It didnt even last a day.

Thank god for ebay, it lets you find someone who finds your trash actually worth somthing.