1984 Ludwig Hammered Bronze Supraphonic

[Purdie Shuffle]

Only the best sounding snare drum in the Ludwig Supraphonic line of drums. My 'go-to' snare drum. Bronze has a great, warm almost woody tone (note) to it that sets it apart from the other metal drums in the line. I love mine and I use it almost exclusively these days.

Ludwig hammered bronze... the last snare drum you'll ever buy!

John

[latzanimal]

Gotta agree. I have a few rarities and custom snares that I have made myself. And as a local friend of mine agreed upon, even tho a couple of those may sound better, the hammered bronze is always going to sound good, relatively cheap and easily replaced, so if it gets a little beer spilled on it or stolen, it can always be replaced.... not so much with a few of my others....

[Purdie Shuffle]

Here's a soundfile/video on the drum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4npJ3q6vWi8

John

[mfry55]

Looks good too. Cool1 When did they (Ludwig) first start making them?

[Purdie Shuffle]

Bronze supras? Not quite sure, 60's , 70's??? Not sure when the first hammered examples were offered. My drum has a Monroe style keystone badge but it says, Chicago, Ill. at the bottom of it, not Monroe. 1984 was the last year of production out of Chicago, before the move. So for sure they were making them in Chicago. How long? Don't know, good research question.

Anybody know the first year that Bronze supraphonics were offered for sale?

John

[Hoppy]

I believe they showed up in 1981 and the K (hammered) versions showed up in the 1982 catalog.

[Powertone]

Purdy, your assessment of that drum is right on the money. A fantastic drum that is often overlooked (except by those in the know). I actually prefer the bronze over the brass versions. I really like the fact that it is an early version. The hammering appears to be a bit different than the more recent versions. Very nice indeed. Thanks for sharing.

[Purdie Shuffle]

Hoppy - Thanks! That makes mine from the second/third year of production. I really love this snare drum. I am convinced it is one of the best sounding snares that Ludwig ever manufactured.

Powertone - I remember reading something about the hammering pattern being larger on newer drums than the older ones. Not having heard or played a newer version I really can't say if it makes any audible difference in the sound of the drum. I do know that hammering dries the drum out significantly as compared to an un-hammered shell. The hammering may account for the distinctly 'woody' tones I get from my drum.

And I'm green with envy over your deep-dish engraved bronze drum. Man, what a beautiful instrument.

John

[Powertone]

Thanks Purdie. It seems like the earlier version have a "softer" hammering, or at least that is the way it looks. I have played both brass and bronze hammered drums and I liked the way the bronze sounded as well.

[Hoppy]

I have one of these too.

I was initially drawn to the drum due to its unique look. Not many folks had these drums way back when. The bonus was that it sounded fantastic to my ears. After I got this drum my Black Beauty was relegated to the shelf. I used the 483 (Coliseum) as the mainstay and the 552 to my left (swapping positions periodically).

We can compare / contrast hammering between drums.

I got mine mid-eighties. Chicago manufactured serial number is: 3112465 (maybe we can place the drums better via SN's).

The hammering or stippling marks is both smaller and greater in number on my shell.

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31443&stc=1&d=1312128347

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31445&stc=1&d=1312129279

[Purdie Shuffle]

Hoppy - I read your post. Ok, so I go downstairs to write down the serial number on the bronze supra and guess what? There is no number on the badge! It's a Monroe style Keystone that says Ludwig across the top and has Chicago, Ill at the bottom. But no number either screened or stamped on it anywhere. You ever hear of that? Badge with no number?

I got the year of manufacture from an article I read that stated that the Monroe style keystones with Chicago on the bottom were only used in 1984 for about 6 months, right before the move to Monroe.

You got me man. I don't know what it means that the badge has no number. Go figure Ludwigs' cataloging system anyway! Number or no, it's hands down one of the best sounding/playing snare drums I have ever owned.

John

[Hoppy]

Hmmmm....

On the badge Idnetification page, http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/ludwig_badges.html#
I got this......

This was a transition badge and you will see it with and without a serial number it is prior to and during the move to Monroe. This badge was covered by the hoop and normally is not cut on the top. It was on a 1985 snare drum.

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/badges/ludwig/keystone_transition.jpg



Mid 1980's to present Ludwig Keystone Badge. The serial numbers on these badges do not work on any serial number guides.

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/badges/ludwig/keystone_1980_present_large.jpg

Ludwig...Gotta' love 'em!!!

I do recall see the larger hammer marks on the earlier version of drum, prior to the shift to the smaller stippling. I want to say I got this drum in December '85 or '86. Here's a pic of the badge too.

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31520&stc=1&d=1312245410

[Purdie Shuffle]

I have the top badge, Hoppy. Mine isn't cut like that one is, but it's the same badge. And yes, it was my understanding that the earlier versions had larger hammering patterns and that the small stipple came later. The large hammer pattern on the shell is what got me excited enough to pull the trigger on it.

Thanks for your input, Hoppy. It's been educational.

Ludwig! Oy vey! (They make some great drums though...)

John

PS - I forgot to mention; I added the Millennium strainer myself. The P-85 that came with the drum is a piece of crap. Never liked it. I stopped liking Ludwig strainers when they changed away from the brass P-83.

[Hoppy]

I saw that Millennium! I don't dig that P-85 either. I'm a huge fan of the newer P-87's... it's solid and has that old school look.

[latzanimal]

For reference, here's mine from '93 bottom left:

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37214&d=1290155834

[Purdie Shuffle]

That's a beauty Latz, small stipple hammering or large?

How does it stack up against your other snares? How do you rate the drum? And did you add die-cast hoops or did it come with them?

John

[latzanimal]

That's a beauty Latz, small stipple hammering or large?

How does it stack up against your other snares? How do you rate the drum? And did you add die-cast hoops or did it come with them?

John

I've got a pic of just the 'Wig somewhere. I'll dig it up.

As far as rating it, I'm not sure how or where to begin. Most of what I have is for different sounds. For example, my 3 Sonor cast bronze drums (4, 6, & 8 depths) have a throaty sound that I really like. By contrast, the Ludwig is a bit warmer. The Ludwig is warmer than the Segmented purpleheart on top of it, but that's the nature of purpleheart. The red one is an 8-ply Keller shell and the other segment is made of cocobola.

I think my first post describes my feelings best about the Ludwig hammered bronze.

I ordered it with a top die cast as they had stopped offering bottom DC's by then. I then happened to stumble across one in a GC shortly after I got it, so I snagged it. It just didn't look right (symmetrical) with only one DC.....

[latzanimal]

Here's a pic of my very dirty Hammered bronze...

Looks like the smaller hammering..

31612

[Purdie Shuffle]

Man I'd like to put our two snares together, put the same heads on em, tune em both to the same pitch and then see if there is -any- difference that can be heard in the sound of the drums. Would be an interesting experiment.

John

[latzanimal]

Man I'd like to put our two snares together, put the same heads on em, tune em both to the same pitch and then see if there is -any- difference that can be heard in the sound of the drums. Would be an interesting experiment.

John

Sounds like a roadtrip!!

Better yet, I'll send mine to you, but you have to clean it before sending it back..... Eye Ball

[Purdie Shuffle]

You know what? I would do it if my ears weren't so phuqued from sitting between an Ampeg and a Marshall stack for so many years. I honestly don't think I'd be able to hear any real difference in how the drums sound based on hammering pattern alone.

I would imagine, if anything, one drum might sound drier than the other. That's all hammering a metal shell accomplishes, it just dries them out.

... and thanks for the offer, slick! lol

Actually, that baby is going to clean up to be a real treat for you. Scare up a tone control and swap out the strainer for a Millennium, you'll love it death. I'm nutz about mine.

John

[latzanimal]

I think that'll be my winter project, cleaning up my snares. It was clean at one time.....:rolleyes:

I have the tone control, I just removed it and stuck it..... somewhere.

I don't mind the p85. I've only ever had one break and to be honest, I don't flip the snares on or off very often.....

I DO love mine, but I have LOTS of choices....

[coley]

I bought one of these used off someone a few years ago and the serial number is 3112586.

On mine there is a B stamp above the muffler control but it is a straight B and not a backwards one-any signifigance to that?

I have not touched the drem other than to put a new vintage emporer head on the top and I dont believe the original owner touched it as it has the original ludwig head on the bottom.

What do people recommend to clean the shell?

[coley]

Picture of drum that I referenced in previous post

[Hoppy]

Our snares are real close in serial number serquence... just under 100!

Not sure about the "B" so yours is in the same position as mine but in an upright or "normal" orientation?
(mine is pictured earlier in the htread)

[coley]

Yes mine is in the normal position

[Tommyp]

The "B" is upside down on my EARLY 1982 Ludwig Hammered Bronze Supraphonic. Always thought that was interesting... then I saw Hoppy's, so you have to figure the first run shells were all stamped upside down... until someone caught the "mistake" at Ludwig and corrected? Regardless...

GREAT playing/sounding snares!.. and this from a devout Rogers guy!! Here's a pic of mine, and again, note how SHALLOW the hammering is on the first run shells. These particular drums sound like nothing else, especially with the shallower hammering.

Tommyp

[coley]

what do you use to polish the shell?

[Tommyp]

what do you use to polish the shell?

coley!...

I'm going to assume.. ( and that is a word I normally HATE to use! LOL! ) .. that you are asking about my drum, yes? If so, here's a thumbnail sketch as to what/how I did it:

This drum being a 1982 was COMPLETELY tarnished when I found it.. ( the bronze turns "copper" like an old Lincoln penny ) .. and we all know that OEM bronze should be like brass/gold in color. PLUS, and this is the killer part: Ludwig CLEARED these shells with something, which I thought might have been clear lacquer, but that didn't seem accurate as it was a BEAR to get off so I could actually polish the shell back to original. I still don't know what was on mine for a "clear", but there was something there. The funny thing is, THAT was supposed to help in preventing the tarnish/finger prints, etc. Maybe it did work, for a while anyway, but the drum IS 30 years old now. Anyway...

Nothing I tried by hand worked... none of my tricks... nothing. I just couldn't get through to the tarnish so I could polish it back. I had to go to other methods, and that is the result you see here. I sent the drum out to a professional metal polisher that specialized in brass, bronze, and copper. They used a special compound/rouge in conjunction with a buffing wheel to cut through the tarnish. The speed and friction/heat of the wheel in concert with the rouge/compound did the trick! The shell was returned to OEM with absolutely NO DAMAGE, burns, scratching, etc. The shell was perfect! Then...

They sprayed on a waterbourne "clear" in a semi gloss finish with a UV inhibitor which will HOLD the drum shell from tarnishing for decades. Paint/clear technology has indeed changed since Ludwig built this drum back in 1982, and that is for the better in this case! There were no waterbourne products back in 1982 of course. The results are as you see here... gorgeous!

It was worth it to me to have done, especially after I had exhausted all the methods that have worked for me in the past. This one was TOUGH! Goes without saying that I completely disassembled the drum including badge/grommet, which all had to be put back after buffing/polishing. Everything on the drum is original as it left the Ludwig factory.

Hope this was of some help/information for you!

Tommyp

[snaremania]

PLUS 1 TOMMY Clapping Happy2

[Hoppy]

The "B" is upside down on my EARLY 1982 Ludwig Hammered Bronze Supraphonic. Always thought that was interesting... then I saw Hoppy's, so you have to figure the first run shells were all stamped upside down... until someone caught the "mistake" at Ludwig and corrected? Regardless...

I was initially thinking that the inverted "B" was for bronze material and the standard "B" was for brass... but it sounds like that theory won't hold and it was more than likely stamp-operator error!