Buddy Rich Slingerland Kit WMP

[prestonprince]

Hi there I have this very good condition Buddy Rich kit 24 x 14, 2 16 x 16 floor toms and a 13 x 9 Tom, all original some yellowing on the 13 tom and on bass drum and first floor tom. All badges are correct as I have original purchase reciepts (the red Slingerland gaurentee cards with the matching serial numbers) The second floor tom is very white in comparison due to the original owner not using this drum at all. Chrome all excellent and there are the four spurs with the kit but in photo its just the two set up. I have the original leg brakets but the orginal owner put on premier onse as these were stronger the thread lasted longer. He did not re drill the holes for the brackets so there is no damage to the shells (phew). If anyone could shed light on them that would be great, such as value, also I would love to get hold of a matching snare WMP for this set and I'm not to sure what goes with it. P.S it cam with hollow satmped Zildjian A's 20" ride 2 x 16 " crashes and a pair of new beat Hi Hats in stunning condition, and original hardware.

Any news would be wicked thanks out there.

[Webmaster]

Do you have the second L-arm?

Depending on the year you could probably do well with
any one of the TommyP Buddy Rich drums.

Click Here (http://www.vintagesnaredrums.com/other_stuff/tommy_p/tommy_index.html)

If you pin point the year of your set, Mr P could probably tell you what
snare he was using most at that time.

TommyP and I have a project on the back burner titled "The Snare Drums of Buddy Rich". I should say it is HIS project and I'm the one bringing it to the Internet. I have a few catalog and image scans, but the rest is his research and information and my design and lay out.

We are projecting it should be ready for viewing by the end of winter and now that I posted this on the forum, I have publicly created the deadline.....Cool Yes Sir (What did I just do....)

Value for your drum set if it was 100% correct, would probably be in the $1200 and up price range and if you had two die hard BR fans and the correct snare drum...

I hope that helps in some remote way...

David
Webmaster

[DrCJW]

prestonprince:

There is some variability here, so some short questions to help. Are the badges black & silver or black & brass? What are the serial numbers (first 3 digits will do)? And what is the month/year on the sales receipt?

DrCJW

[prestonprince]

Hi there

Serial Numbers

16 x 16 floor tom 110866 catalogue No. 1405
16 x 16 floor tom 114609 " No. 1405
9 x 13 tom 110861 " no. 1401
24 x 14 bass drum 114111 " no.306A

Date of purchase 3/9/1974

Thanks for all the info so far. Would love to get hold of a matching snare the previos owner sold it, maybe someone has it out there serial number 114117 marine pearl cat no. 153

Black and silver badge.

P

[Tommyp]

prestonprince...

David, our esteemed Webmaster, has mentioned that I could "probably" tell you what model snare drum Buddy was using at the time to correlate with WHEN your Slingerland kit was built... there's no probably ... I will be able to tell you!

Once you have an approx. year on your drums... ( DrCJW would be THE ONE to answer that question! ) ... I will let you know what snare/snares would complete your kit. Buddy played MANY different snare drums during his tenure with Slingerland, and a few of them crossed over each other... ( including some NON Slingerland too! ) ... depending on the year.

The project I have been working on that David has mentioned should be a nice visual/read as I have been a fan/historian of BR's for years, as well as collected EVERY model snare drum he played from 1949 to the Fall of 1976 when he left Slingerland to go with Ludwig... again. All the model snare drums in my BR collection are absolutely CORRECT including wrap/color and are just as BR played them. It has taken years to assemble this collection as a few of them are rare and hard to find.

Let's see what DrCJW has to say regarding the year of manufacture of your Slingerland kit. By the way... David is correct: You need the 2nd "L" arm on the bass drum for the splash cymbal for this to be a BR kit. Good that the kit has the DUAL spurs on the bass drum as I see a lot of alleged BR kits that have only the ONE set... which means they are NOT the Slingerland #80N Buddy Rich set up. Looks like a nice kit though! :-)

Tommyp

[Tommyp]

prestonprince...

As I submitted my post, yours came in... now THAT'S timing!! Anyway,

Slingerland snare drum #153 is the Slingerland "Artist" model which was originally called the Buddy Rich Model prior to the release of the Slingerland BR/TDR Buddy Rich snare drum, which replaced the "Artist" as Buddy's drum of choice. The "Artist" is an 8 lug Solid Shell snare drum and I do have one in my collection... except mine is a 1968 as BR was playing this model at that time. The "Artist" is also available as a plied model too, but those aren't as collectible as the Solid Shell ( Uni-Mold ) models. Buddy played the Solid Shell model. So,

The fact that your kit came with snare drum model #153 is interesting as BR played the Slingerland 16 lug 4X14 ( 1970 ) AFTER the "Artist", and BEFORE the BR/TDR Buddy Rich model.

Anything was and is possible though as kits could be ordered any way the customer wanted... Slingerland was very flexible in that regard.

Tommyp

[prestonprince]

Thanks guys this is really helpful and I do apprecite your time on this. There is an additional L arm for the bass (splash) but it is currently not fitted and the holes have been filled by two small nuts ( no damage to the shell) so alls original. Another interesting thing was the previous owner had a very nice rogers swivomatic bass drum pedal which I still have for the kit. Are these worth anything did buddy use these? All the Zildjian A's that came with it are stunning and sound just wonderful.

Does anyone have one of these snares for sale sold shell or Artist series? Also how much do they go for?

Thanks

P

[Tommyp]

Hey P!

Wow... your Slingerland kit is complete... because ... YES! ... Buddy played the Rogers Swivo-Matic pedal with all his kits, regardless of make, after he left Rogers in early 1967. It was his pedal of choice! Prior to his Rogers endorsement/tenure, he used the venerable WFL/Ludwig Speed King. After playing the Rogers Swivo-Matic there would be no going back. Buddy played a Swivo-Matic right up to the end... and interestingly enough, he finished his career where he started... with Slingerland! Also of note:

After Buddy left Rogers he also kept both the Rogers "L" arms which he continued to use with his Trixon/Vox, Fibes, and Slingerland kits.

Regarding a Slingerland #153 "Artist" snare drum ( solid shell ) in WMP:

These snare drums can be had... but they don't come up all that often, and, you will be wanting WMP... ( White Marine Pearl ) ... which makes it a bit more difficult/expensive. THAT, coupled with the fact that you want the Solid Shell, not the plied model. A nice one will set you back $400.00 to $600.00, for the SOLID SHELL. The plied model sells much cheaper... and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the plied model either... it's a nice drum! The sticking factor is that BR played the solid shell model. Mine is darn near MINT, and at the time I paid $475.00 for it, and that was over four years ago. They are out there though... just keep your eyes peeled... and act fast if you find a nice one. They always sell quick! You could certainly pick up a plied "Artist" as well... it would complete your kit nicely.

Sounds like your Slingerlands are the real deal... the #80N Buddy Rich model. That's a nice kit!

Tommyp

[DrCJW]

prestonprince:

Great kit and congratulations. Your drums may have been made as early as later 1973 to as late as about a week or so before shipping. So a good estimate would be October 1973 (Christmas stock) to February 1974. The picture is small, but from what we can see the kit?s feature footprint essentially looks correct for a 1974 Buddy kit, and very nice. And any missing parts will not be really difficult to find.

In 1973 ? 1974 the correct snare drum sold with the Buddy Rich kit was the #153 Artist. Below are scans from the 1973 catalog ? of the kit with the #153, and for reference, individually of the #153 in the snare drum section. The snare drum in 1973 ? 1974 carrying the Buddy rich name was the 4x14, also pictured below in the 1973 catalog. Now during 1973 ? 1974, Buddy did also play the 10-lug TDR Deluxe Concert King, in 5x14, pictured below in 6.5x14 from the 1973 catalog. This drum, in 5x14, did not become the Buddy Rich model until 1976. Pictured below is the catalog page of the Buddy kit with Buddy Rich model TDR snare from 1976.

Whew - the story of all the Slingerland snare drums Buddy Rich used is a fun one, but a long one ? one for another time?

Tommy ? just by way of being a bit careful ? ?uni-mold? actually does not apply to Slingerland?s solid maple shell. ?Uni-mold shell? was a term Slingerland used for its 3-ply shell. You?ll see it used in many Slingerland catalogs of the period and earlier, often when referring to the shells on its 3-ply toms. As far as its use referring to snare drum shells is concerned, this really started with the Artist and Radio King lines in 1973. And in fact, when Slingerland started using the term ?uni-mold? in its catalog for the #153 Artist and #143 Radio King, this was the exact same time ? 1973 ? by which it had completely stopped making solid maple shells, not to pick it up again until the late 1970s!

Worse, in truth, Slingerland had all but completely stopped making solid shell snare drums at the very beginning of 1965. Never mind what the 1965 (#67), 1967 (#68), 1968 (#69), and 1970 (#71) catalogs say about the #153 Artist coming ?with a solid maple shell?. But for a scarce few (try to find one!), they were all 3-ply. So the language ?with a solid maple shell? was changed to ?uni-mold? for the #153 and #143 in the 1973 catalog. The distinction between ?uni? and ?one? as in one-ply, can confuse on the consumer side. There?s a whole story to this one too, also for another time.

Ah, shame on you Slingerland (wink)!!!

Hey Tommy - just took a look at your page ? you have some seriously gorgeous snare drums. What?s the serial number on your 1968 #153 Artist? Is it six digits, and if so what are the first three?

DrCJW

[prestonprince]

Wow....that is fabulous thankyou so much for all that info truely greatful.

Now where can i get one of those 10-lug TDR Deluxe Concert King?

Any idea how to pull out some of the yellowing on the small tom?

[Tommyp]

prestonprince...

It's going to be a lot easier to locate a BR/TDR Buddy Rich Model snare w/10 lugs in WMP than the TDR Deluxe Concert King... but then again, it's only semantics, as it is the same drum! And yes, there is MORE to that entire story having to do with Buddy and Slingerland's timeline of snare drums during Buddy's Slingerland endorsement period... and in this case, BR's SECOND Slingerland endorsement period as he was with them originally starting in 1932 and ending in 1945... and then BR went over to WFL/Ludwig in 1946 until 1959... and then Buddy went over to... and already I digress! Anyway,

You gotta love Slingerland! Cataloging a Solid Shell "Artist"... ( also called the Buddy Rich Model then ) ... but in reality the drum is a plied model? Wow. Hence the "Uni-Mold" nomenclature? Very interesting! And as always, DrCJW sheds some light on yet another slight discrepancy! Yes... shame on you Slingerland! :-) Now,

DrCJW: We should compare thoughts sometime on the Buddy Rich snare drum timeline as I think it would be most interesting! I have researched all the snare drums Buddy endorsed/played, regardless of his endosrement contract!, from 1949 to when he left Slingerland in 1976... the Fall of 1976 to be exact. I have rare film, pics, candids, etc. which show Buddy playing a LOT of these drums. One of the most interesting is the performance I have on film of Buddy playing his NEW Slingerland kit... ( September 1968! ) ... with the Artist model snare drum... which I would imagine was the Solid Shell variant, but seeing how Slingerland cataloged their drums at the time, may very well be the plied model. Regardless, Buddy and those Slingerland's sound GREAT!! You know,

My personal arena of knowledge is Rogers... and those are the drums that I hold closest to my heart too... for the simple reason that Rogers was building the best drums of the time during their run to the top in the 60's. The fact that Buddy was out there with them is what drew me to Rogers back in 1966... and I have never stopped... much as your connection/affection to Slingerland. I started researching/collecting specific Slingerland drums BECAUSE of the BR connection, although I hold them in high regard as a very important American Drum Company of the time, just like Rogers... and sadly, both gone... but not forgotten!! ( although the continued/attempted "resurrection" of both companies from time to time is interesting )

prestonprince: I did an entire article on removing the yellowing from a WMP wrapped drum for "Classic Drummer Magazine" a few years ago. The drum was a 1949 WFL Buddy Rich Be-Bop 3X13 snare drum. Here is the link to a brief description of that process on the VSD main site: http://www.vintagesnaredrums.com/other_stuff/tommy_p/wfl.html This will show you that it can be done... but it is very time consuming and tricky. In most cases, it's best to leave the drum as it is... and most collectors will agree with that policy as well. This particular drum came out FABULOUS... and for the record: The "lightening process" returned the wrap to a much younger shade of itself, but NOT completely white. The drum really looks nice as the pics bear out I think! I also found that not every wrap lightens the same! For whatever reason, the Rogers WMP would hardly budge, but the WFL/Ludwig wrap was a dream. I have never tried a Slingerland drum... yet! :-)

Tommyp

[Cjwebber]

TommyP,

you often speak of this lightening technique, but it seems as though you have never given instructions. I am curious to why this is...and if you could fill me in on the process. Or is this like a "secret recipe" of yours...?

-chris

[Tommyp]

Do I detect a tad of sarcasim there Mr. Webber?!... or are you just being funny?! LOL!!! Okay...

"Secret Recipe?" Nah... but there a couple of reasons that I haven't ever printed my procedure publicly or on a forum... well ... except for the article I wrote for "Classic Drummer Magazine" that is. Course that was a few years back too... Anyway,

It is a TRICKY bit of business this "lightening" thing, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone completely RUINING their vintage drum/drums because they were say a bit heavy handed with the solvent, that's first and foremost. Secondly, most vintage WMP wraps look just fine with the warm/yellow hue they attain through the natural aging process, and should probably be left alone. Having said all that:

It is very time consuming... the 1949 WFL/Ludwig Buddy Rich Be-Bop 3X13 snare drum took HOURS to lighten, and that is a very small drum! Regardless, once progress is seen being made, the project seems like it speeds right along as it is exciting to watch the WMP come back to life. So,

Here's what you can do Chris: Feel free to contact me with a PM, or you can look up my regular email address on my profile, and then we can chat. Cool?! Thanks for your interest!

Tommyp