Rogers:Live and 20/12/16

[Super B]

There were two threads last week about using vintage gear live and using the 20/12/16 configuration live. Well....66-67 Dayton, Ohio Rogers (in WMP) in the 20/12/16 line up, live at the Ritz in Warren, Michigan. Bonus, it was Devil's Night, which traditional (thank God, this practice has stopped) is the night, Detroit burns to the ground. The drums are safe. The soundman went crazy about this set, so, did a few drummers during the course of the night. A common question, "Is that a 18in kick?".

[JohnG]

sweet drum kit and WMP is always classy.......love using my vintage sets live


question on your Rogers early Fullerton Blue Strata 22,13,16...are they 3 or 5 ply...I have one that looks to be a 3 ply....

[Super B]

5 ply on my kit. Early Ohio shells were 3 ply. Later Ohio and Fullerton were 5 ply, up to the 8 ply XP-8 shells. If you have a 3 ply drum with a Fullerton tag, maybe, it was an old drum that sat around, finally, Rogers put a tag on it. It happens.

[BigE]

Beautiful kit!! I love WMP! I have a couple a Rogers 9/72 Fullertons,3ply w rerings.

Cheers, BigE

[Super B]

I'm sure it's been talked about on this forum a few times about Fullerton 3 ply shells. My memory is foggy, but, I think a poster on here had a 72 catalog with 3 ply shells. The Rogers book by Rob Cook says differently. Rogers used what they had. Both types are going to sound great. Also, Rogers didn't make their shells.

[The Ploughman]

There are quite a few three ply Fullertons out there, even some of the earliest Big R, but not many of those. 9/72 fullertons were three ply. Catalogue says so.

[Super B]

There are quite a few three ply Fullertons out there, even some of the earliest Big R, but not many of those. 9/72 fullertons were three ply. Catalogue says so.

Yep, I knew it, you were the poster with the catalog. It had to be the Ploughman!

[JohnG]

Yep, I knew it, you were the poster with the catalog. It had to be the Ploughman!

My Fullertons are pre 9/72 tags and all look to be 3 ply. They are more blue than this shot portrays.

[mcjnic]

Super B ... that is a seriously nice looking kit. One of the few WMP wraps that really holds up well through the years. I'm not sure what Rogers did differently, but man, those things are absolutely stunning.

[Super B]

My Fullertons are pre 9/72 tags and all look to be 3 ply. They are more blue than this shot portrays.

I love your kit. I want to add a tom to my kit, but..and you know this,too..blue strata is a very rare finish. Sweet skins, John G.

Deja Vu/I'm a moron. Ploughman told me two months ago, on a thread here, that he had a '72 catalog with shells being 3 ply. I will not forget. I always thought it was 5ply up until the 8plys, so, I need to make a note to myself.

Note to self: Just because I have a 5 ply Fullerton, and the Rogers book says it should be 5 ply, there's plenty of real evidence that the same time period shells could be 3 ply.

[Super B]

Super B ... that is a seriously nice looking kit. One of the few WMP wraps that really holds up well through the years. I'm not sure what Rogers did differently, but man, those things are absolutely stunning.

Thanks mcjnic, that means a lot to me. I respect your opinion a great deal. Rogers just made a great drum that stands the test of time. Playing 'em is even easier. You just have to tune them once.

[Tommyp]

Ah jeeze... now I have to comment! LOL! Most guys on this site know that all I own/play is WMP, with Rogers being my MAIN drums of choice for all the different gigs I do. I have three Rogers sets, all mid 60's, and again, all in WMP. Oh, before I go any further, yes Super B, nice drums! They remind me of my 1966 Rogers Buddy Rich Headliner set with the exception that mine was ordered originally with 14X20, 8X12, 14x14, and a Powertone snare drum. This was my MAIN giging set until I aquired the 1965 Rogers Buddy Rich Celebrity set shown in my avatar. I've been playing the '65 BR Celebrity's exclusively for the past 5 years, and that is finally allowing me to get to the point here!... sorry, I began to digress... Anyway!...

mcjnic states that he doesn't know "what Rogers did differently" as the WMP holds up well over time. Actually... Rogers didn't do anything differently!.. ( it's pretty much all the same WMP formula for all the drum companies, and made by the same manufacturer with slight variation in the chip size/backing color for each companies specs ) .. and .. it doesn't hold up over time either. Please understand that I am NOT being critical of Michael's comment here... I just figured I would mention what DIDN'T happen with Super B's drums. Simply... they were not played outside for any length of time over their lifespan. In other words, very little UV exposure. Believe me, if those drums were gigged in outdoor venues, they would be quite yellow! I know only too well "the heartbreak of WMP"... but it's still all I play, well that, and Buddy Rich models specifically... but again I begin to digress...

My 1966 Rogers BR Headliner set was magnificent white WMP when I began gigging it... including outdoor venues. Now... they still play/sound incredible!, but have YELLOWED a lot... and I mean a LOT. UV exposure. Period. I'll attach a pic... and a pic of how they looked when I started gigging them.

This set looked even WHITER than Super B's drums when I started gigging them... this picture was taken after I "retired" them from active gigging duty and set them up for a pic. Check the wrap... quite "yellow"... still BEAUTIFUL drums in every regard of course!... but there's your UV damage. So...

Rogers didn't do anything differently at all with their WMP wrap/pearl... if you want to keep them "white"... DO NOT gig outside or expose them to prolonged UV. Enjoy those drums Super B!

Tommyp

[mcjnic]

Thanks big guy. I didn't know that. It always seemed to me that the WMP wrap from Rogers was always more rich and beautiful. You make an excellent point ... and a very painful lesson on your part. Ouch. I'm stunned at the yellowing that took place on that kit. Great stuff. It's why we hang tight to this forum.

[Tommyp]

Michael!...

After reading your reply I remembered that I forgot to add one very important detail on this subject: The "yellowing" happens so SLOWLY and over such a period of TIME, that you don't notice it!!! I was cognizant of what happens to WMP with UV exposure, but stupidly thought that it meant DIRECT SUNLIGHT... duh!!!! ( forgetting basic science and the fact that UV is present ALWAYS... even on cloudy days ) I would constantly check my drums to "see" if there was any yellowing happening, and of course with nothing to compare them to, they looked GREAT!!... so I thought. SIGH. Imagine my surprise when I decided to "retire" them and use the Celebrity's, and set them up for the pic that I attached. WOW. What an eye opener... and what a MORON. Still...

BEAUTIFUL drums to this day of course!... just a little "mellow" in the WMP department. Indeed.

Tommyp

[Super B]

Wow, it's cool Tommy P chipped in. Hey, Tommy, I take it there's no way I can keep the finish from yellowing, right? I love this kit and want to play it live as much as possible. The set just feels so right. Quick edit, I just reread your posts..I just have to limit the UV exposures? I keep all of my drums in cases during transport. For any outdoor show, I can use blue stratas. Thanks Tommy.

[Tommyp]

Super B!...

Yes... the main culprit for yellowing vintage WMP is indeed UV. If one was playing strictly inside venues, the WMP would barely "move" and would maintain it's brightness for a long time, within reason of course as there are other small factors in the aging/yellowing process that WMP goes through as the years go by. The fact that you have another option for outside venues/gigs.. ( Blue Strata ) .. is cool. I would imagine that UV will also have an effect on the Blue Strata Pearl too as all these old wraps are a Pyralin/Cellulose Acetate material, and prone to "movement" in their color from the effects of extended UV exposure. Still... I doubt that it would be as bad as what happens to WMP... but don't know for certain. Because I play ALL WMP sets, I got around this small problem by...

... using a PVC WMP wrapped set for the outdoor venues/gigs. I picked up a 1997 set of Ludwigs, Buddy Rich Model, WMP... but in this case, PVC WMP. The Rogers are my MAIN drums of choice for sure!, but I wouldn't want to risk any other set to that type of "damage" in the outdoor arena. The Ludwigs are a 6 ply no rings clear maple lacquered shell, and sound "close" to the Rogers... but not quite... but close enough for jazz as the old saying goes! I just worked with the "Sinatra Show" last night and grabbed a pic after sound check. Here are the Ludwigs with the PVC WMP wrap. These are 97's, yet the wrap is still brilliant white WMP. PVC is UNAFFECTED by UV, as are all the new wraps available today.

Enjoy those Rogers drums Super B!

Tommyp

Enjo

[Super B]

Thanks Tommy P. It's cool that you are such a huge Buddy Rich fan, you have a few drum company options for your sets. I have a USA Gretsch and a 90's Fibes for outdoor options. I just really love the Rogers sound. Thanks again for the tips, because, I would never have thought of UV damage for a drumset. Just like anyone on this site, it's our duty to preserve the vintage gems that we have.

[blairndrums]

I love Rogers WMP just as much as the next person,but almost every one I see is quite yellowed...........

If I could find a dead mint WMP kit ( and,a BDP kit) ,I think I would stop looking for Rogers drums

[drjay51]

I am new to the community and have been having a wonderful blast into my past reading these postings. My first drum set was a Slingerland Cocktail set which my dad bought used from an old drummer who retired. That would have been in around 1962 so I'm pretty sure the set was about 20 years old. The first set I bought was a Trixon set (the conical shells) which I loved/hated. They looked gorgeous but the mounting hardware sucked, but I truly regret selling them years later. There was a used Pearl set in the early 80's which was functional and had great hardware but I never loved them.

In the late 70's/early 80's I worked with a drummer (I switched to keyboards) who was British and he had a lovely Rogers set in the blond wood wrap. He purchased them in England and brought over when he came here. Not only was he a good drummer but he turned my on to Ted Heath which just added to my big band disease on top of Buddy and Gene and Louie et all.

And now I am finally ready to part with the one drum that was my first love. I have cleaned and tuned up my beloved Rogers COB Powertone snare. It was the first quality musical instrument that I picked out and purchased. I bought it from Whitehead Music in Saginaw Michigan for $99. It took me months to save that money from my paper route and it is still one of the best purchases I ever made.

Other than the heads (Ludwig batter and snare heads) and a new set of Rogers snares it's original and looks great. What I can't remember is what year I bought it. It was possibly 1964/65 when I was in eighth grade or maybe the next year when I was a freshman.

Can anyone help me identify the year of my Powertone? I have included pics and the tag inside the shell has serial number 13040 and the hand written letter F on the upper left hand corner of the tag (somebody's initial)?

thanks for any comments or suggestions and I love the forums discussions.

[drjay51]

You can tell I'm an old musician and I haven't kept up with modern technology. I managed to learn about tubes but the internet is a stretch for me. So I failed to attach the pics of my Powertone. I'll try again here and see if I get it right this time.

[PopsOldSkins]

There were two threads last week about using vintage gear live and using the 20/12/16 configuration live. Well....66-67 Dayton, Ohio Rogers (in WMP) in the 20/12/16 line up, live at the Ritz in Warren, Michigan. Bonus, it was Devil's Night, which traditional (thank God, this practice has stopped) is the night, Detroit burns to the ground. The drums are safe. The soundman went crazy about this set, so, did a few drummers during the course of the night. A common question, "Is that a 18in kick?".

Nice set.
OK I have to ask. What is that spidery thing hanging from the cymbal stand?Hmmmm

[Super B]

Nice set.
OK I have to ask. What is that spidery thing hanging from the cymbal stand?Hmmmm

It was a halloween show and the sound guy put spiders on some of the mic stands.

[Mike T]

Well I just can not help myself Except for the last year i had owned and played rogers drums for 45 years I have had alot of WMP drums as well as blue glass glitter and i miss them but I am having fun with my ludwigs now.. anyway here are a few pics these are fullerton brown paper tags i would say 1969 holidays and even my 3 year old grandson loved them .. :) long live rogers and WMP

PS Super B keep on playing those awesome drums live that is what they are made for and Tommy my friend your always look awesome.. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/DSC02998Medium.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/DSC03100DesktopResolution.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/DSC00872Medium.jpg

[The Ploughman]

You can tell I'm an old musician and I haven't kept up with modern technology. I managed to learn about tubes but the internet is a stretch for me. So I failed to attach the pics of my Powertone. I'll try again here and see if I get it right this time.

Your powertone is
Mid 1966.

[blonkins]

To be honest, I like the WMP when it has yellowed. Makes the kit look warm and played to me.

All those Rogers kits look beautiful. Thanks for posting the pics.

Blonks.

[Super B]

Well I just can not help myself Except for the last year i had owned and played rogers drums for 45 years I have had alot of WMP drums as well as blue glass glitter and i miss them but I am having fun with my ludwigs now.. anyway here are a few pics these are fullerton brown paper tags i would say 1969 holidays and even my 3 year old grandson loved them .. :) long live rogers and WMP

PS Super B keep on playing those awesome drums live that is what they are made for and Tommy my friend your always look awesome.. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/DSC02998Medium.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/DSC03100DesktopResolution.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/DSC00872Medium.jpg

Young ones playing vintage kits make me smile. Cool pictures. It looks like you had two killer Rogers kits in wmp. Why did you sell them?

[Mike T]

Always wanted a Bonham set in natural maple and I needed to downsize as venues just keep getting smaller so i sold them and bought a ludwig set I am 60 now and figured I batter do it now or I may forget to do it.. :) But my heart will always be with rogers drums I just wanted to do something different..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/DSC03187DesktopResolution.jpg

[Super B]

Always wanted a Bonham set in natural maple and I needed to downsize as venues just keep getting smaller so i sold them and bought a ludwig set I am 60 now and figured I batter do it now or I may forget to do it.. :) But my heart will always be with rogers drums I just wanted to do something different..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Magwa/DSC03187DesktopResolution.jpg

Right on! You have great taste, either way, you will sound great. I used to play a 26in kick drum. Loved the sound, hated to move it around for shows. Scratched my stairwall everytime. Disk 1 on the Zeppelin dvds, Bonham is killing it on his Ludwig naturals. I love that kit!