You can make any drum sound good

[mcdrummer]

Or can you? Do you think any drum can be made to sound good? I hear people say this and I was always skeptical until I played a gig at an outdoor biker rally a few years ago, we were the third of three bands before the headliner and we were told that the sound guy had provided a back line kit for the openers. I'm always skeptical and since the gig was in driving distance I figured I'd bring a little more than usual, just in case the stuff was crap.

To my surprise when I got there the drums sounded great! I was really amazed, I couldnt tell what kind of kit it was at first but I could see that the 13" tom didn't exactly match the color of the other drums.

After closer inspection I saw a badge on one drum, it was an old (possibly 60's/70's) cb-700, the mismatched tom was a pearl president (I think), the bass drum had some replacement lugs, which didn't match, and the thing had cracks in the wrap with clear packing tape holding it down, the snare was a 70s or so Ludwig supersensitive.

The kit sounded great, through the system but when I got on the kit it sounded awsome live.

I was amazed and credit it to good heads, great tunning, and some tweaking. (and a great snare)

I think maybe you can make almost anything sound good. Maybe not in a studio but definitely live.

What do you think?

[giger.t.]

I heard that many times, that white the proper heads and mostly a¨fine tuning¨ almost every drums can sound good,and i think it's true, most of the time... but if he (the sound man or the drum tech) can make a CB-700 sound reeeally good, can you imagine what he can do whit an old American 3 ply shell drums, who's got those ¨magic tones ¨ that we all dream about?...Mind Blowi

[Bobby Boyd]

To my ears, it's usually that a drum can sound horrible live and good through a good system or PA, if treated properly. Live it's still is a dog.

[giger.t.]

Yep! sometimes , soundmans can do miracles... but personnally i think that a drum kit have to sound good (with the band) right on the stage, fIRST.

[norman931]

I've owned some drums in the past that were VERY hard to get a good sound from. That said, a good player can still work magic from crappy drums and cymbals.

[al9000]

Of course, great drums will always sound great when tuned properly.

When parents of potential drummers ask me for purchasing hints, I tell them they can make up for not-so-great drums with good heads and careful tuning. But I always recommend spending as much on cymbals as they can afford. A bad drum can sound good, but a bad cymbal will always sound bad ... and will drive them crazy after a few months of hearing their kid practice.

When we go to the music store, I A-B high-end Zildjians, Sabians, and Paistes with their respective student models and even non-musicians can tell the difference.

[vintage drum bug]

I got a friend who is a drum hoarder. He pick ups any shell,any can,any tube and transform them in to drums (oil containers, Carboard containers, paint cans, etc,etc) . There is no replacements for drum parts in Chile. No store carries lugs,hoops,or rods down there, Sometimes is hard to find heads!
Well, he fabricates wood hoops, wood lugs and sometimes wood stands for himself...he use the rope principle a lot (so he doesnt need actual lugs...)
You guys should hear how his drum sound...he put special effort on the bearing edges and snare beds...He builts snares made of fishing lines! Once he manage it to add sand beach to a head! He is AMAZING!!!! His name? Ismael Troncoso

[O-Lugs]

I am a believer that any drum set in good hands can sound good. In fact, even a drum sound that is deemed "bad" by today's standards still sounds "good" to my ear. Example is Steve Gadd and his Yamaha Recording Custom kit with Evans Hydrolic heads! But STEVE! What can you say?

All kinds of examples of cool drum beats being played on what amounted to cardboard boxes.

I'll put it like this: I have heard drummers playing some of the most outrageously expensive drums on the market and yet they can't make them sound good because they are limited in their understanding of playing. And then, conversely, I have seen some of the most horrible drums ever sound great when applied to the music properly.

I have seen jam sessions where several drummers will alternately play the same drum set and none of them get the same sound. Weird, huh?

The thing about "good" and "bad" is that those terms change for each person -much the same way that "beautiful" and "ugly" take on different perspectives.

We all have gone into the drum shop and walked past a kit on the floor and given it the finger tap on the floor tom to see how long it sustains....right? Somehow, if the floor tom sustains forever and a day, we think, "Wow! That's a good-sounding floor tom!" But, then in application with a band, those drums get moon gel, tape, special drumheads, etc.

everyone is searching for that "best" sound and yet nobody knows just exactly what that sound is!:Santa:

Here is one of my favorite drummers (Jon Falt) and check out his cymbals, stands and drums!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfvB4QW73lo&feature=related

[mcdrummer]

Wow I really like this trio, the drums and cymbals sound great, interesting and unique, what's the name of that tune, or better yet which album would you recommend I begin with in accumulating some of their music.

I went to Itunes and found albums from 1998 - 2005.

Any suggestions?

[O-Lugs]

YES! I love that trio, too! I recommend you get the one called "Serenity" -except the drummer is Jon Christensen on that one. Jon Falt (the drummer in the video) is on Stenson's latest called "Cantando" -which I haven't heard yet. I have only learned about Jon Falt's drumming via YouTube. But, if you like this kind of vibe, you can't go wrong with any of Bobo Stenson's stuff. Also check out a piano player from England named John Taylor. I'll post a video in the video section of the forum so that you can check it out.

[bishopsfinger]

of course any drums can sound great,its only our vintage drum snobbery that prevents us from admitting it.just dont tell anyone!

[patrick]

Aw come on,

Most competent drummers can get a decent sound, sure. But I expect most competent drummers who have put in some time on the instrument have also played a few dogs.

For instance I have a little Pacific snare that came with a bunch of other stuff that just does nothing for me at all, and a nice old (1957) Olympic that is similarly unthrilling--albeit full on charming to look at.

Then there are drums that if you started a separate thread would be fairly divisive re their sound. Free Floaters are a yin/yang type drum where some favour them and others don't.

I basically take the premise that "you can make any drum sound good" with a grain of salt.

Some dogs are dogs,

cheers,

Patrick

[Pounder]

Yes that is a fact, any drum can be made to sound good.

Unlike cymbals.

But much of the equation is indeed the player. So, if anyone is reading this, then please, if you're considering a cheap set of drums, DON'T BUY A NEW China-made SET! Get a used set made in Taiwan or if you're lucky, USA.

So the assumption that vintage drum nuts wouldn't like to admit this is erroneous. Lots of really cheap drums Made in China may actually have more exacting detail than a really old drum from the 60s.

That gets me to my last point.

Have you ever watched a documentary or National Geographic show where they show the natives--with their untouched pre-historic technology--playing their drums? That's what you should get from even the newest most-perfect drum. There should be some of the ancient shining through. And those drums were made from natural materials, hollowed out tree trunks, etc.

Any ideas to the contrary is either modern drum company marketing BS, or elitist drum owners rationalizing to justify their most recent mega-buck new-drumset purchase.

[bishopsfinger]

i totally agree with the last comment,drum snobbery is rife and im the biggest one for it,oh im sure my 64 gretsch sounds better than his 79 kit. im talking about using my kit to earn my wages and as much as i love my ludwig, my cheapo taiwan premier wipes the floor with it on the stage,sorry

[mcjnic]

as much as i love my ludwig, my cheapo taiwan premier wipes the floor with it on the stage,sorry

Unless there's something you're not revealing, you've definitely chosen incorrectly your heads and tensioning variables for the Ludwig kit.

[bishopsfinger]

dont get me wrong,the ludwig sounds and looks great but then so does the premier and that doesnt go bouncing across the floor.i love vintage drums,thats why im an owner and a member of this forum but i feel a lttle real world drumming is missing and snobbery is abundant

[mcjnic]

dont get me wrong,the ludwig sounds and looks great but then so does the premier and that doesnt go bouncing across the floor.i love vintage drums,thats why im an owner and a member of this forum but i feel a lttle real world drumming is missing and snobbery is abundant

Please don't take this wrong. I'm not picking a fight. I'm just clearing away any gray areas that might exist.

Speaking as an owner of pretty much every major (and quite a few minor) brand of drums out there at one time or another over the past 45 some-odd years, ...
...for me, it's not snobbery when I say with conviction my Slingerlands perform better than most any other kit I've ever owned. That includes the hardware. My ears are my guide. Everyone has a set of ears and they listen to their own. Snobbery does not enter in to the equation. I buy what I want and if it doesn't perform well, out it goes. If it does, I hang on to it for a season and then let it go. In the past four years alone, I've gone through more than two dozen kits. Some were vintage and some were new. Some were high end and some were gigging kits. Through the years, I've owned - Gretsch, Ludwig, Slingerland, Premier, Rogers, Mapex, Tama, Yamaha, Stingray, Remo, Pearl, Fibes, Punkinator, DW, Sonor, Peavey ... heck, I even had a custom built Roland kit, complete with DW stands. There are others, I'm sure, that I've forgotten on this list. But, the fact is, I've owned most every makers high end kit. I'm not jaded and I'm certainly not being snobbish when I lean toward my Slingerland kits. They are just that good to my ears. They make the sounds that my ears like. I don't have any issues with the hardware. Shoot, Yamaha's mounts are bouncier than anything vintage. My stuff stays put. The resonance is superb on these drums. They flat out booooom.

If you take the time to find the right heads and tweaking for the drum and the room you're playing, ... it's magic.

[bishopsfinger]

mj i have to acknowledge your wide experience of many kits,as a working drummer ive had a few myself though cant claim to have had as many kits as you.i stand by my claim though that in a club,playing at volume you might as well be playing anything as long as its set up and tuned well. acoustically my ludwig in a smokey jazz club will sound great but miked up and in a normal club gig my premier rings the bell,and that thing is a pile of poop!

[Pounder]

Obviously different situations will reveal different aspects of your drums. And the miking in a club often yields the best results with otherwise-non-resonant and thuddy sets of tubs. I already addressed the fact that newer designs have resulted in more exacting details. So you're left with tuning, bearing edges, and other factors that have little or nothing whatsoever to do with the make or model of the drum.

You sound like you're trying to get a rise out of someone by calling your Ludwig drums no good.

The bass drum across the floor can be addressed with velcro, and or a hoop-mounted front spurs. But almost every brand of 60s drums have a similar spurs setup and are prone to moving across the floor. That's a hardware design issue.

Another thing that can help prevent bass creep is if your bass pedal is somehow attached to the floor. DWs with the floor plate have velcro, that's really effective, along with the spurs on the bass pedal.

I have never asserted that vintage drums sound better. I have voiced my agreement that all things being equal, any drum can be made to sound great under any circumstances, unless, the hardware or drum isn't functional.

Is Premier still making drums? Has the British government stepped in to help?

[mcdrummer]

I play in several bands, and a jazz quartet, I also do some recording. I'm playing 2 or 3 gigs a week normally, although sometimes I have busy months,
(April - 27 gigs). With that said, I too find that with the exception of the Jazz gigs, I prefer a less expensive, newer kit, for blues and rock.

When I play traditional Jazz I like to use vintage cymbals, and vintage drums, I love the sound, and the feel, and emotionally I feel like I'm connecting with some of my favorite drummers from the 50s and 60s playing the same sizes and kind of drums and cymbals that they played. I think about kind of "channelling" those drummers.

Still for several years I played a Gretsch Catalina Club kit 18/14/12, for jazz gigs and surprisingly I got many compliments on the sound, and particularly remember one of the best jazz bassists in town who raved about the drum sound. He was surprised to find that it was an inexpensive newer kit. Tuning and heads, and of course I was using a 60s Gretsch COB snare and some great vintage cymbals certainly helped but I didn't get that "channeling" feeling until I replaced it with a vintage ludwig 20/14/12.

I wouldn't think of using a vintage kit for some of the rock and blues gigs that I play. First because of the wear and tear of set up take down, transporting, and the occaisional careless bass player spilling a beer, or knocking over a guitar on my bass drum. I've played at some real rough places.

But also though, I find that set-up and take down, is easier, and faster, (memory locks etc.) and I feel a little more secure that things will stay put, with a newer kit.
I played rock and blues with a 60s ludwig 22/13/16 for several years, eventually switched to a Tama Swingstar for the really rough places, and sometimes pull out my Yamaha maple custom absolutes for higher profile gigs.

I think some of it is a very personal preference, almost a "spiritual" thing.
Even if no one notices, if your drums sound great to you, you play better, and with more heart. But you need to be practical and use the tool you feel is right for the job.

(p.s. I'm usually disappointed if I go to see a great local jazz player and he uses a cheap newer set)