Artists using Vintage Yamahas and value? Questlove

[Pounder]

Questlove's (Jimmy Fallon show drummer for the Roots) on the cover of Modern Drummer magazine June 2010 issue. Inside it says he plays vintage oyster pearl Yamaha early 70s drums. 20/14/12 with some accessories. He's getting a great tone from them, and he's one of the top Hiphop drummers right now.

What do you think? Are these destined to be the next highly collectible drums? Unlike other Japanese drums from the era (late 60s early 70s) these drums have shells that are very similar to Gretsch, and are not Luan.

Comments?

Here's a pic:

[mcjnic]

Are these destined to be the next highly collectible drums?

"highly collectible drums" - Nope. They are very cool drums, no doubt. But, that will only get you so far. They do have some cool wraps and some pretty decent shells. They are still MIJ drums. If and when the MIJ market goes into the realm of "highly collectible drums", you can bet that Yamaha (and all it's derivatives) will be at the top of the list. I don't honestly see MIJ's becoming "highly collectible drums" anytime soon. There is a niche out there and that's very cool. I would love to have a neato set of MIJ's with a sweet unique wrap. But, I don't want to venture into those waters as of yet. My room is filling up with American vintage drums. I would also LOVE to have a sweet Trixon kit, but NOT YET. There's lots of very high quality non-American vintage drums out there. Those are cool and people do collect them. But, "highly collectible"? I just don't see it.

[Pounder]

If you look at the values of some of the older non-American drums, they in fact are out-pacing USA-made drums from the eras that they have the edge in quality, particularly late 70s and early 80s, with few exceptions such as stainless and vistalite Ludwigs. Look at Recording Customs. They're always worth more than US-made Ludwigs from the 80s. I believe that the quality is the primary consideration, along with rarity and desirability.

I probably should have re-phrased it to say "the next collectible Japanese drums." Any time you have a high profile artist that plays an instrument, value increases on that instrument, especially if it is of a grade of quality.

[mcjnic]

It's an odd thing to do - ask a question while seeking input and then dispute said input. If you believe Yamaha's will be the next big thing, then so be it. That's ok. They are cool drums. If that's the case, jump on the bandwagon and buy low so that when it does hit, you can sell high and reap the profits. Go Dog Go.

[mcjnic]

Look at Recording Customs. They're always worth more than US-made Ludwigs from the 80s. I believe that the quality is the primary consideration, along with rarity and desirability.

Go to Guitar Center and check out the used Yamaha Recording Custom kits. They are less expensive than Ludwigs pretty much across the board. Hit some of the Vintage drum dealers and you will see that it holds true there, also. I'm not sure where you are getting your data. Ebay is only one source. Do a random sampling from many sources to get a feel for the current market. Do this over an extended period of time to identify trends.

Not arguing with you. Just trying to educate ... if it's needed. Not sure if you've already done this. If you have, take it with a grain of salt. If not, then here ya go.

[Pounder]

That's a good idea. I'll check various sources then get back with ya with some hard factual info. Anyone else?

[Pounder]

I also just wanted a discussion on how, if any, an artist playing a vintage set affects value.

I mean I think if a drummer for a really popular band like the Roots, Questlove, is playing these every evening on TV, that should raise the profile of the drums.

WMP Slingys are sought after because Buddy played them. He also played sky blue pearl slingerlands. People are always looking for another 16" floor tom to get the Buddy set.

Istanbul K cymbals are always going up because Tony Williams and other great jazzers played them.

Ringo.. Almost every high-profile drummer has caused an increase in value of the drums they played. I just thought it might be nice to explore the possibilities of value fluctuations in regards to non-usa Vintage drums, and try to guess which ones will increase in value over time. Recording Customs definitely have held and increased in value, not quite to their original retail pricing but close. Steve Gadd and several other drummers played them.

There's a distinct relationship between types of drums and the famous artists who played them. Amber Vistalite is a common vistalite color just behind Clear and blue. Yet they're worth much more because Bonham played them. Same with Black oyster Ludwigs. Ringo played, everyone wants them, but Ludwig produced tons of 'em, still prices keep going up.

I'm sure some artists played Sonors. I know Jack DeJohnette, Steve Smith, and Danny Carey among others play them, not sure how that effects value.

Gretsch RB drums were played by Max Roach, Tony Williams, Art Blakey, etc.

There's a distinct tie-in. I'm not trying to create a tie in where there is none, I'm just looking at the info that has come about. Questlove's playing a Yamaha set, 12/14/20 sizes, and he has a sizable fan base. And they aren't that common, but if more people are hunting them down, they will increase in value.

They weren't even on the map for me a month ago. I think yamaha may have been the first Japanese drum company to come out with pro-grade shells, and soon were followed by Tama and Pearl. it wasn't long before they were literally crushing Ludwig Rogers Slingerland and Gretsch, all of which suffered in the 80s from the importation of fine quality Japanese drums.

[drumhack]

Never heard of Roots or Questlove................

And I think being able to pay someone about fifty cents to make a drum kit vs. acceptable US wages had a bit to do with the Japanese Invasion in the 80's........

[Pounder]

I was informed by another member that Questlove has been playing a different line of Yamahas for a few months now, and that the vintage yamahas have been "retired." He's the drummer for the Roots, and he's been playing on the late night talk show hosted by Jimmy Fallon.

[Pounder]

True about the Japanese drums, although if you look at Japan they have been getting increasing wages and their economy is suffering as a result of it. Now China's the country with cheap labor and they're flooding the markets making the trade deficit with Japan in the 80s look like a mild spring rain.

[Questfordrums]

I always thought that kit was a new Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute kit with a special wrap for him, haha. In either case, it does/did sound great.....as does Questlove. Anyone who has not heard him play should definately check him out;)

[drumhack]

I guess my point was that, and no offense to...er..Mr. Questlove??, he is not a household name that would push a drum line like, well I really do not wish to start another who's the best drummer type deal but you get my drift. People call them Bonham kits, Ringo kits, etc. for a reason. When you can look on Ebay and find a Questlove kit every other day listed for sale, I will agree that he is a reason Yamaha drums will be as collectable as the real collectable drums are.

No offense to Mr. Questlove if he is indeed a member in disguise on this fine forum. If you are a member Questlove, start playing American drums and get with it dude. That gig should pay enough to get a dece set of Slingy's for Pete's sake....................LOL

have a wonderful evening

drumhack x-mas2Burger KinExcited:Snow Flake:

[al9000]

Totally concur about ?uestlove. He's not only a great hip-hop drummer, he's a great drummer.

This is not meant to start a sub-thread or new argument, but when Conan left "Late Night," I was relieved because it meant that I could start going to sleep earlier. That went up in smoke when they announced that the Roots would be Fallon's house band.

I like what Fallon has done with the show, but the Roots are why I stuck around through the show's growing pains. For my money, they are the best talk-show band on TV. And Owen Biddle just slays me on bass.

[wayne]

Pros can make any drum sound great,i,ve seen it dozens of times.It has nothing to do with brands at all,its about choice.If he wants to play vintage drums,good for him,and good for us who appreciate them as well.If its a Japanese drum,who gives a crap,and how could anyone doubt that Yamaha is and has always been a cut above the rest.I see more Yammys on the tube than anything else,hands down.Tama and Pearl are making some of the finest high end gear i,ve ever seen...Like i said....Its about choice.:2Cents:

[drumhack]

I believe the spirit of the OP's OP was collectability and famous drummer's abilities to alter this. This was what I was speaking to.


have a wonderful evening

drumhack guitar3Car Driving2Coffee Break2FYIEye Ball

[MastroSnare]

Pros can make any drum sound great...

You got that right. Any drums.

You got the player, the sticks, the heads, the oh-so-important tweaking and preparing of the set, and the unique "almost impossible to find that are acceptable" cymbals... all that and then you have the drums. The drums are so minor compared to those other factors.

I've watched the band on Jimmy's show and they are killer. The drummer is probably changing kits like changing his suit.

[JSdrums]

I read in Modern Drummer a few months back that the kit Questlove uses was the 5th one Yamaha ever produced!!

[Pounder]

I'm not sure how accurate that is, but it is definitely an old set of Yammies!

They be slammin' the beats.. Captain Kirk is a great guitarist too.

[kevmugen71]

LoLoLoLo I love Quest's , Conan O'brien setup in the 1st post. Sumo Dude beast!!!

-kev-

[eamesuser]

in the 80's you could buy a fender mustang from any year for 175.00,Kurt Cobain started played one on the teen spirit video and then you couldn't touch one for 400.00.I think the Japanese drums will become collectable as the people born in the 70's and 80,s age and hit their peak earning years,with the late 70's top quality drums leading the way.I have played some Tama kits from that era that look like they have been through world war three and are still doing service,so these old kits will be playable and giggable,Maybe they won't be as valuable across the board as American kits but I think they will hold their own,with certain drums being highly collectable and valuable.

[Pounder]

I agree with this. But the high profile artist (Questlove is doing the Max Weinberg/Conan O'brien thing only even more high profile, he and his band the Roots are prominent on the show) connection AND the older (one of the first high quality) Japanese drums that had a cool factor already enter into the picture to create a "perfect storm" value-wise.

And, no I don't have a million posts on VDF although I've got many thousands on DFO ;) and quite a few on cymbalholic, so who am I to presume to know anything near the potentates here? Shut up maybe I'll learn something..

I'm trying to convince someone these are going to be the bee's knees pretty soon. No one knew who Questlove was a couple of months ago. I stumbled onto a same-era Yamaha set and sold them quickly, they had no wrap or badges. A set that has a similar or same wrap and sizes 20/12/14, if properly presented, would sell for a ton.. This assertion can obviously be disputed.. But to be honest (and ironic?) I am seriously interested in playing these. My other serious set is some Ludwigs and the bass drum is a 24.. Being interested in Jazz and funk, those smaller "progressive jazz sized" sets are definitely very cool sounding. None of this helps my position but it is exciting to see something like this happening and to discover it. Usually people are really quiet about it until it is hitting them in the face. Ringo's appearance on Ed Sullivan brought awareness of Ludwig Black Oyster drums to millions and even though Ludwig produced high quantities of them in that color, they remain the most collectible color around.

Bonham's Maple and Amber Vistas and Green sparkle Luddies w/26" bass, Ginger Baker, Double bass silver sparkle, Nick Mason, close to the same, Keith Moon, Premier double bass of varying age and era, Questlove and his vintage Yamahas. Just because they came out of Japan could actually make the value factor even more potent, as Yamahas are being played and endorsed as much or more than any.. Steve Gadd/ Dave Weckl and their RC's..Neil Peart and his SLingerlands, then Ludwigs, then Tama, then DW.. On and on..

[mcdrummer]

Questlove's (Jimmy Fallon show drummer for the Roots) on the cover of Modern Drummer magazine June 2010 issue. Inside it says he plays vintage oyster pearl Yamaha early 70s drums. 20/14/12 with some accessories. He's getting a great tone from them, and he's one of the top Hiphop drummers right now.

What do you think? Are these destined to be the next highly collectible drums? Unlike other Japanese drums from the era (late 60s early 70s) these drums have shells that are very similar to Gretsch, and are not Luan.

Comments?

Here's a pic:

I agree with pounder,
I have had more than one conversation with other drummers about older Yama's because of the exposure from Questlove, I actually had a student asking what kind of drums those were and if I thought they were collectable.

I know Gadd had a big impact Yama's a while back.
Of course nothing could compare to Ringo's impact on Luddys.

[jonnistix]

Someone already made the statement that no matter what WE think, another generation is going to decide what is collectible from the 60, 70 and especially 80s, and those will likely be Yamaha.

[mcjnic]

Someone already made the statement that no matter what WE think, another generation is going to decide what is collectible from the 60, 70 and especially 80s, and those will likely be Yamaha.

...without a doubt.

[wayne]

Yes,80,s and on for sure,but i think my generation has already spoken for the 50-70,s most desireable...Im glad i was a part of it...great memories!!...........BTW,were any of you at Woodstock?? I was.

[jonnistix]

Yes,80,s and on for sure,but i think my generation has already spoken for the 50-70,s most desireable...Im glad i was a part of it...great memories!!...........BTW,were any of you at Woodstock?? I was.
Well, you are almost exactly 10 years older than me, and I would most certainly have gone if I had been of age, say 16, 17, 18...I would have been there.

[Pounder]

I've been corrected of my above statement "no one knew who Questlove was a month ago.." by an anonymous member by PM.. I asked that he simply respond to this topic. Thanks, there's no reason not to take the discussion public. I should have worded it "I didn't know who Questlove was.." apologies if I offended any Questlove afficionados with my ignorance, the Roots have been around and he's won several awards and played to millions, probably.

[wayne]

Dont beat yourself up over this.You offended no one,and there,s no need to apoligise.Its a forum where we all have freedom of speech and as long as we play by the rules..its all good.

[mcjnic]

The artist formerly known as ? is indeed the drummer for the Roots. He's been featured in quite a few pubs because of this. Endorsement deals abound. He has the respect. (personally, I like the guy - good drummer)

The issue here (if it is an issue) seems to be in adjoining the artist with sales of a kit to the point of impacting a wide swath of a market.

I don't see that connection being made.


There are many high profile artists playing drums (most of them drummers). They get plenty of press. Many are respected.

Tre Cool had a signature kit. Didn't sell many.
Steve Gadd had five or so signature snares and now has a signature kit. Didn't make a marked impact on Yamaha profits. Don't fool yourself into thinking that it was Gadd who sold all those RC's during the 80's. That was the natural move of music...and about a thousand other studio vets who wanted that dead flat sound. (not an insult - listen to the recordings)
Simon Phillips has played a similar Tama setup for many years. Gong drum sales have not gone through the roof.
Carter Beauford is one of the most revered of the new batch. Black Recording Customs are not proliferating uncontrolled.
Frank Beard is definitely an icon. Yet, people are not playing the Beard kit.
Bill Bruford slayed us in YES (and about a million other projects). His kits were iconic and artistic in design. Not many like those, if you get my drift.

We can go on and on and on with monstrously larger than life drummers who played recognizable kits. There will always be those young guns who set up like their favorite drummers. That's different than impacting the market to the level being discussed.

Ringo kits. Bonham kits. Those are vintage terms earned (whether we agree or disagree). Personally, I don't like those terms. But, I have to live in this vintage world, so I adapt.

Let's talk about Gadd. He wanted his floor toms shallower and angled a bit more for his playing style. Yamaha built him the hanging floor toms. That's the geneses of those. As great of an impact as he was, there really is not a Gadd kit (other than the obvious signature thingy Yamaha puts out these days). That same two up two down hanging tom kit has been used by gobs of drummers - NOT because Gadd used it. But, because it was a good design (requested by Gadd-implemented by Yamaha). Many many many manufacturers are building those kits these days. Are they all Gadd kits? Of course not. Do we all bypass the other brands and buy the Yamaha's because Gadd played them? Again, of course not.

Here's where it should all make sense:
Are those older RC kits more collectible because they are set up like Gadd?

Nope. They are not.

[mcdrummer]

I agree that very few people run out and try to match the Gadd, Weckle, Jordan, etc. kit, like they have with Bonham and Ringo, and that I see signature kits for sale (a relatively new phenomenon) but very few in actual use.
With that said, those drummers do often draw more attention to a particular manufacturer or a particular line of drums. There's no doubt.
To say that they had no impact or very little impact on the sale of those sets is to say that most drum manufacturers are idiots for wasting millions on endorsement deals don't you think?

I mean they must help sales somewhat or they wouldn't get those sweet deals?

Ludwig said in an interview that Ringo single handedly saved the company and gave him that gold snare. (by the way does anyone know where that snare is???) I don't think he was talking about the sale of just identical "Ringo Kits"
Sales of everything Ludwig increased because of the attention Ringo brought.

So maybe ?uestlove (what kind of name is that?) will bring some increased attention and desirability to vintage yama's???

What do you think?

[wayne]

The vintage market is hurting at the moment because of the economy and also the fact that the real prime US vintage gear is not abundant like it once was.Its in climate controlled basements or the top shelf [out of reach] of drum shops with signs that say DO NOT TOUCH!...So,the price is through the roof and not exactly affordable for the working stiff...Now the MIJ gear has its weakness like chrome,fragile hardware,cheap wood shells with little attention to detail,etc....BUT,the Yammys are a cut above all that and should be awarded thier place among the drums we desire from the States and EuropeClapping Happy2Sumo Dude

[eamesuser]

Good points all,Gadd I believe also used a 15" 16" hanging floor combo,but I see more 14" 16" floor hangers,even from that era.

[Pounder]

Yeah I think there was a definite impact, at least for some drummers, by who was playing their drums. Not being employed in the industry as a marketer of their drums, I can't say exactly how much impact there was. I will say this, about RC Yammies, Steve at the time was the world's highest paid studio drummer and was really respected by people in the Jazz, studio, and Pop circles. It may be difficult to determine the number of sales that are a direct result of his playing them, but there are other drummers who were also high-profile and who chose RC's because Steve played them, Dave Weckl comes to mind. Drum sales probably make up a nice portion of overall sales for Yamaha, but they obviously sell tons of other musical gear, including pianos, guitars, band instruments, etc. Gadd played Pearl fiberglass in the 70s.. Anyway I think there is a bit of a domino effect that happens when a drummer plays drums and many people are listening. A few of the studio drummers got them, some had more of a name, like Andy Newmark and Dave Weckl, and then their endorsements (along with the accompanying good quality in the product) also contributed to selling the new drums.

But back to the subject, this is a case wherein a drummer who has an endorsement deal with Yamaha grabs a vintage set, and more focus is placed on them. Would value increase by that alone? Perhaps. Perhaps not, conjecture is only that, until we see some numbers. But the other factor in value is rarity. That is something we can say for sure, there's a limited number of Yamaha sets in 20/12/14 configuration of that era. They're good quality, but previously were hampered perhaps, slightly, value-wise, by their being Japanese drums made in the early 70s or late 60s.

Vintage Yamaha drum value may have been hampered by association with other Japanese drums that were generally regarded as inferior in quality. So the value could only be gained by some of them by cool factor or mojo factor, like a teisco or other guitar made in Japan. I'm just saying there are some factors that would contribute to value increase: 1) Rarity, or limited numbers. There will never be more of them out there. Have you noticed how much more common early 70s Pearl or Star or other stencil brands are than Yamahas? All of them are no longer made. 2) More exposure to the fledgling drummers, who find out they're out there, can't afford Gretsch, and start actively looking for them. Jimmy Fallon show gets pretty good ratings on late night, and Questlove and his drums get lots of screen time 5 nights a week. 3) desirable configuration (20,12,14) and good quality, and cool wrap finishes offered back then.

As to whether your conjecture that they won't go up is right and my conjecture that they will is, that remains to be seen. It is true, as Wayne says, the economy isn't supporting an increase in value of much at all right now.

It will be interesting to watch the market and find out. I'm not going to act like I can predict the future but I'm as good as the next person at looking at some things. I'm glad I stumbled onto the player's set as I consider myself, like many of you, to be students of vintage instruments. I'm enjoying the learning experience.

[jonnistix]

I think all here know my stance on MIJ drums and the value they are enjoying at the moment. Many of these old stencil kits are never going to be more than a curiosity and I know this. The values will remain relative to what they are now. However, Yamaha is a different beast altogether and all drummers know this, whether they like them or not. They have always been associated with much higher quality than the rest. Star and old Pearl stencils are what they are, beginner kits with cool wraps. However, these days they are enjoying somewhat of a look from other professional drummers because they have a sound that cannot be found in any other drums. The thicker, 6 and 9 ply mahog shells have a very distinct tone, and the thinner 3 and 5 ply shells have a low, rumble and boom that nothing else does. And they are inexpensive at the moment.
My WMP set, for instance, having been modified, have a very cool vibe, and look good doing it. Do they rival old 3 ply Ludwigs...? No. Not the same at all. Do they rival old 3 ply Gretsch....yeah right. Slingerland, seeing as this is the maker they were going after, they share a lower tone and boom with them, but a totally different sound.
Now, Yamaha, on the other hand, they are built with quality woods, birch, maple, and African Mahogany. Different all the way around. Yamaha will always be known as more of a high end drum. Look at what we have today in the Japanese built drums, not the Taiwan or Korean made, just the top of the line kits. They rival and in many cases kick butt on American built kits all the way around in build, heavy duty hardware, like Gretsch and Ludwig American built gear, they are top notch. TAMA, they hold top resale and always have. Yamaha, same thing. Now, look at Pearl. They are the Chrysler Corp of the Japanese drum market. Some of their gear is top notch, the Japan made stuff, yet it drops dollar like a fat stripper on Monday night. Tama, only the low-end, and it doesn't lose much, Yamaha? No, they hold and command top resale value.
Yamaha did not build 1000 kit a week in the 60s and 70s, like the Star/Pearl stencils, as they DID NOT participate in the stencil market, as best we can tell. This is why they will increase in value. They are well built, they are cool looking and they sound great. Stencil gear, eh...only after you tweak the daylights out of it does it begin to sound good. But the guys that know what they are doing with these old cans will bring some of trhem to the forefront of their respective market. The stencil drums are not in the same league, no matter what anyone tries to push, as Yamaha, TAMA and the Japan built Pearl Masters. However, Pearl did not make many mid-line and very few pro kits in the vintage era we are discussing here. Star, now some of the gear that bore the Star badges, later in the run, toward the big switch, were quite good quality. I personally do not like the thicker shells, you all know that. I love the sound of the pre-67 thinner shells. Yamaha did not use thick lauan shells, as far as I know, except for the very budget minded sets of the lower end series, and very few of those are surfacing compared to the birch/maple variety.
Now, are the vintage kits going to gain in value due to Q-love playing them? It may have an impact on the price of them. However, what will, and is, having a more direct impact on the price of them is rarity, condition and quality. Yamaha drums are top quality, that is why they will continue to increase in value, not merely because a Hip-Hop artist and TV show are carrying them. Everywhere you look, DW is in your face. Ludwig, not so much anymore. Gretsch, you see them, Pearl sometimes, TAMA yep. But Yamaha is and always has been top Q, and quiet. Not making huge noise, never have (I am talking about marketing noise here, guys and gals). They sell because they are great instruments, and their vintage gear is now coming of age. They were not making drum kits in the 30s, 40s, 50s like Americans, they were building traditional Japanese drums. So, they are top quality, and since they did not really start building the trapset until the 60s, they will be fewer, and much more difficult to find. And that rarity, along with the non-participation in the stencil game and the seriously wild wraps they had will also drive prices.

Are we, the aging vintage guys going to decide the fate of MIJ, Yamaha, Star, Pearl? No. It will be the 20-somethings that count themselves among our members that will decide their place in the future of vintage drums. It is my mission to preserve Kleening as many of the quality ones as I can for them to place in their rite and rightful place.:Snow Flake:

[mcjnic]

I don't think anyone is refuting Yamaha as a quality drum. Rogers kits that Yamaha built in the 60s are sweet. Yamaha didn't build birch kits until the 9000 series in the mid 70s, though. Someone correct me if I erred.

[wayne]

I believe the inner ply was birch which was sandwiched with ???? poplar,mahogany,not sure about that one.

[jonnistix]

Yamaha did not begin production of modern drums until 1967.

[Pounder]

Let the games begin (BTW I believe the color of this set is a Blue oyster whereas my eyes are seeing a Black oyster pearl color on Questlove's set.. but nonetheless):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370396919786&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[p.bova]

Let the games begin (BTW I believe the color of this set is a Blue oyster whereas my eyes are seeing a Black oyster pearl color on Questlove's set.. but nonetheless):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370396919786&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The finish is called Blue Willow.

[jonnistix]

Are you in?
My prediction, 750+. For only the three pc. Stupid sellers, what is wrong with these people? Sell the damned pedal with the drums. And why multiple boxes? He can ship all three in one box, just pull the lugs off the 12, and off they go.
Let the games begin (BTW I believe the color of this set is a Blue oyster whereas my eyes are seeing a Black oyster pearl color on Questlove's set.. but nonetheless):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370396919786&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[Pounder]

I hesitate to call the seller stupid, he's been at it for a while, it appears. If I were sending that set it would go in 2 boxes, the ft in the bass drum and the rack tom in another box. If it were going USPS, then the removal of lugs for economical box size makes more sense as long as the weight stays under the limits for the service used to ship them.

[jonnistix]

I hesitate to call the seller stupid, he's been at it for a while, it appears. If I were sending that set it would go in 2 boxes, the ft in the bass drum and the rack tom in another box. If it were going USPS, then the removal of lugs for economical box size makes more sense as long as the weight stays under the limits for the service used to ship them.
I don't really mean him individually. It's just that these old kits vcame as kits, and in my warped little mind, it should remain thus. I really can't stand to see people parting out vintage gear that comes this way.

[Pounder]

That went for $725. Greed running rampant?

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/msg/1810104165.html

[mcjnic]

I do not wish to belabor the point here. But, that's not a shock. Those nice Yamaha kits have been selling for about that for several years now. I'm not sure what you expected to see. Even the Rogers/Yamaha kits have gone for just under that (depending on finish). Heck, there's a Yamaha 70's Red Pearl kit up on Steve's site going for 1200. These are good kits, irregardless of who is seen playing them.

I'm sorry, but your intent here is rather obvious. If you believe the impact of Questlove is going to drive the prices higher and that these will become highly collectable, then invest.

Please do not infer a massive shift in the market by looking at a couple of completed sales. I say again, monitor the entire market over an extended period of time to determine trends.

If the market shifted on the basis of one auction, then logic would dictate that all jazzfests would be priced at $3000.00 these days. That's simply not the case.

There will always be wide gaps between individual sales numbers. Currently, there is a Yamaha kit with a sweet finish in very good condition going for a couple of bills. This is being offered by an online retailer. There is also a sweet Yamaha going for almost three times that from another online retailer. Which should I believe is more precise? Which reflects current market trends?
They both do. That is the reality of vintage drums. Some go cheap. Some go for a bit more. Search for trends to understand it. Educate and learn what to watch for and when to pull the trigger. That's for another thread, though.

[Pounder]

1) Only one was a complete sale, the other was an asking price, as was the Steve's price. One definitely needs to make the distinction, because there are several sellers out there, including Steve's who commonly sit on stuff that would sell on a very rare occasion at the price they're offering it at, and who will never, ever actually sell to someone who is very price-conscious.

2)I don't need advice on investing.

3)My intent is not what you say it is, so it isn't as obvious as you say it is. Your intent is obvious as well, to downplay vintage Japanese-made drums. Feel free to continue along that track as I'll gladly continue along mine, but I would (and may indeed be) stupid to start this topic if I felt it was obvious that it would cause any upward trends, because I was actually trying to buy some of these from another forum member when I knowingly started the topic, and it has resulted in his desire to keep the drums until he either gets a better price or changes his mind.

4)My showing these 2 examples was simply due to their obvious relevance to the topic.

[mcjnic]

Whatever you think. Have a flowers2 day.

[SlappyDrum]

3)My intent is not what you say it is,

you like this drummer qweslove or who ever and think that guy plays yama drums so every body wants one and it will be the next collecters list.

i just read this thread again. mcjnic never said nothing bad against yama drums or anything.
:2Cents:

[kevins]

When Questlove steps off a plane and 15,000 screaming fans try to trample each other to get a better look, and the Roots have gone biz million triple dilithium crystal gold on their 12th album/cd/shaved diamond wafer or whatever they will be offering up music on by that time..... then he might have a dribble of an influence on the next brand of collectible drums.
If he must be introduced as (Jimmy Fallon show drummer for the Roots), then he's not in the same ballpark regarding influence as Ringo and John Bonham.
Questlove is a talented individual, but not nearly famous enough to have an individual effect on the yet to be seen trend in collectible drums. He and a body of other drummers might, but that doesn't seem to be the case as of yet either.

So......

"Questlove's (Jimmy Fallon show drummer for the Roots) on the cover of Modern Drummer magazine June 2010 issue. Inside it says he plays vintage oyster pearl Yamaha early 70s drums. 20/14/12 with some accessories. He's getting a great tone from them, and he's one of the top Hiphop drummers right now.

What do you think? Are these destined to be the next highly collectible drums?"

Nah, not because of him.............
That's what was asked, and that's what I think.

[jonnistix]

I see his influence as no more than bringing more attention to the old Yammies, however his influence on young rock-n-rollers will not mean anything as to what they play. That said, as long as he brings that attention to those drums, there will be some impact to the relatively small amount of then available when compared to virtually all other drums of this period. Yamaha did not flood the market as other Japanese drums because they were really not much less expensive than a comparable American or European kit due to the import levies.
His presence is already having some, although limited, impact on this market, hence the Indie C/L listing in the prior post. What should be a 600-750 kit, this seller is banking on Q to garner him a tidy profit. So, will he have a lasting effect...it is possible, because once the attention is brought on, and the young guns learn that they sound amazing, they will start to put upward pressure on the sales of them. Do I think Q is going to be responsible for this, yes, by default, not because he so special. Only because he is current, and is bringing attention to the vintage world of MIJ drums, rather than just another DW geek. He is playing something different not just another set of DW, or Pearl, because they are the 2 top endorsers at this time in history.

[drumhack]

What about Max Weinberg (spelling?) He is a famous drummer from a late night show, and also for one of the most popular concert tickets out there, for a lot of years.

Never seen a Weinberg kit mentioned anywhere for sale............


have a wonderful evening

drumhack Jumping2Jumping2Jumping2

[Pounder]

Maybe you're right, I hope you are. I don't want the prices to go up. Triple diluthium crystal platinum, that would be tough to do. Cover of Modern Drummer magazine is a nice feather for the cap, though. Totally not in the same breath as John Bonham, maybe Max Weinberg, but his audience is probably your children's age, soSoap Box:rolleyes::cool:

[wayne]

I find this very interesting.I,ve always said that magazines sell drums to the younger generation,and it seems its working here.Im 60,but if i was 30 i likely would,nt have a clue or a desire to seek out "old MIJ gear".I mean think of the time lines and what was available in the 70-80,s,and who was playing what.So now ask the 30 yr old to try and think an extra 15-20 yrs FURTHER back.Exactly,he,d be a gleam in daddys eye.Now,ask [me] the 60 yr old and think ahead 15-20 yrs.I can do that,because im old enough to be part of both generations,so its perfectly correct for these younger players to see a cover on a drum magazine and go...who the heck is that,and what is he playing?...hence the interest,or curiosity if you will.

[jonnistix]

Maybe you're right, I hope you are. I don't want the prices to go up. Triple diluthium crystal platinum, that would be tough to do. Cover of Modern Drummer magazine is a nice feather for the cap, though. Totally not in the same breath as John Bonham, maybe Max Weinberg, but his audience is probably your children's age, soSoap Box:rolleyes::cool:
Max Weinberg is Springstein's drummer, so the age of the audience is our generation(s)...possibly one of the bands that will continue to span the generational gap.

[Pounder]

True, but nowhere near the extent that The Beatles and Led Zeppelin has crossed the generational lines. Another difference is that Ringo and Bonham remain (Bonham has not choice obviously) loyal to their brand, in both cases Ludwig. Max currently plays DWs and I'm pretty sure he wasn't back when Born To Run came out! ;) I think he played Ludwigs.

[jonnistix]

True, but nowhere near the extent that The Beatles and Led Zeppelin has crossed the generational lines. Another difference is that Ringo and Bonham remain (Bonham has not choice obviously) loyal to their brand, in both cases Ludwig. Max currently plays DWs and I'm pretty sure he wasn't back when Born To Run came out! ;) I think he played Ludwigs.
I agree with you about the brand loyalalty thing. Then again, too manypeople go where the money is, and currently, that seems to be it. DW or Pearl, that is the question, whether it be noble.....ah..nevermind. Too many fickle people looking to maximize the endorsement potential, and line the pockets of their respective managers, lawyers and agents...which are all lawyers, by the way...anyway, back to p i s s i n g people off...Laughing H

[al9000]

I'm not a Springsteen expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I recall reading a Modern Drummer article about Max Weinberg from way back (late '70s, early '80s, well before his DW sponsorship) that indicated he was using a hybrid kit.

I don't remember all the details, but the bass drum was a Ludwig and the toms were Slingerland (or vice versa). I don't remember anything about the snare.

The thing I do remember about the article was that he said he was having problems with his meter during his early years with the E Street Band and that Bruce came close to canning him.