Why not a return to the old style wraps?

[O-Lugs]

Why have the variety (and quality) of wraps diminished in the market? The WMP doesn't look the same as the old style. There are no lilac pearls or blue oyster pearls anymore not to mention pink oyster pearl or burgundy sparkle...and many others.
Is there a possibility that people will begin to re-make some old finishes? I only mention it because of a recent Pearl Drums ad I saw in MD magazine that showed what appeared to be a tiger-stripe oyster pearl! It was similar to Ludwig's old "bowling ball" version of blue oyster pearl -except a nice orange-ish yellow with black and white patterning. Some people would probably disagree, but I liked that wrap.
Is this an indication of the next trend in drum finishes? Everything old is new again -except with a "twist"! :)

[Sparkletone]

I'm with you 100%. It would be fantastic to see a massive return to the old wraps. Looks like we are slowly but surely on our way, with the Gretsch Catalina wraps , Ludwig's black oyster wrap, and all the variations of white marine pearl out there (including the aged-looking one by Mapex: "Vanilla Cream Pearl"). In the meantime, there are some pretty cool finishes out there amongst the custom drum manufacturers. You might want to check out:

San Francisco Drums:
http://www.sfdrumco.com/finishes_set.html

Pork Pie:
http://www.porkpiedrums.com/html/wraps.html

C&C Custom Drums:
http://www.candccustomdrums.com/about.html#finish

Kiemo Drums:
http://www.wevh.org.uk/showcase2/kiemo/finishes.htm

Kiemo even has a leopard print finish!! ...When all is said and done though, this stuff HAS to be expensive. When Tama and Yamaha start cranking out mass-sets in sky blue pearl, we'll know we've arrived.

[ARCHxANGEL]

I think we'll hit the re-sergance of wraps soon.Ludwig still makes some classics,and seeing that Tama now has a Psychadelic and Mod Orange wrap...I think the retro look is definatly making its way back.Even if only in smaller numbers.But I agree its not how it used to be.I can look at my 67' Ludwig kit ( red sparkle ) and no bubble,nothing.I can go look at a new set less then 6 years old...wrap looks wretched.

[70sPinkStrataPearl]

I also noticed, something similar, how on the new sparkle kits something about the sparkle just looks so i dunno like synthetic. Especially the green sparkle kits. I look at slingerlands green sparkle and its just like wow..so much more organic looking and pretty, if you will. But you may be right about the cooler wraps coming back. Everywhere I take my pink strata pearl ludwig people ask where it came from!

[sabshga]

I used to know the link for the Delmar company. They make all the wraps out today. On their web page they have an extraordinary array of wraps you typically due not see offered by the drum refinishers. Really cool stuff.

[O-Lugs]

Sparkletone,

Wow! Thanks for those great links!

Sabshga

Here it is:

http://www.delmarproducts.com/OurProducts.htm

[Antipodes]

I think you'll find a bunch of younger players who get the whole retro thing but I fear the majority don't - and as most manufacturers are targetting that younger demo, that would be why there's a more limited selection. My few contacts in the retail part of the industry say the retro resurgence is already pretty much over. But I guess the older wraps get more attractive as you get older - along with slippers and having a favorite chair.

While I'm here, have been after the old large chip Ludwig style white marine pearl which is currently out of manufacture. If anyone knows anywhere I might be able to get my hands on enough for a classic 13, 16, 22 and 14 x 6 kit then please let me know.

Otherwise Precision Drum Company seem to be the guys to go to for a retail wrap supply solution - or what?

DR

[sabshga]

Precision, I'm told are the go to guys because they cut to order. I've heard that Delmar only sells in commercial quantity. I've had a lot of work done by Bonzo and at one time he told me to pick anything I wanted off of the Delmar sight and he would get a hold of it for me. So if you see something you like on the Delmar sight that Precision doesn't offer on theirs, you might want to contact Matt Sinyard at the Bonzo Drum Company to see if he can get for you. http://www.bonzodrums.com/

Regards,

Gary
Dix Hills, NY

[Rich K.]

I've heard that the method for making the wraps is different now which is why they don't seem to have the same "depth." Let's not forget that many of the wraps we consider really cool now, like oyster pink, fiesta, mod orange, etc. were the less popular ones when they were made and weren't good sellers...that's why they're a lot harder to find.

[sabshga]

I think today's glass glitters are better than the old ones. For what it's worth.

[jrfrond]

There is actually a HUGE variety of wraps being made, but many are "special request", meaning they are spec'ed and designated for specific manufacturers. The reason you won't see some old patterns is because of limited request. Despite the fact that Blue Oyster is a coveted finish, it is a fairly narrow cross-section of drummers that actually desire it, therefore it will not be pushed into development. Colors like Burgundy Sparkle and true Pink Champagne, by contrast, are currently special request finishes that were spec'ed by Gretsch.

As far as quality goes, most older wraps were cellulose acetate or nitrate, both very unstable and prone to shrinking, cracking and fading. Dyes were different too. They were less stable organic aniline dyes, rather than chemical dyes now used. They were changed due to many reasons, the least of which is that they tended to fade prematurely. So, along with the material change came a slight change in look, but the QUALITY is actually miles ahead of the old stuff, because it won't dance around and change it's colors while on your kit. I think it is an equitable trade-off personally.

[O-Lugs]

Yes, I suppose the new stuff is more durable and stable...but some of those old wraps had so much personality it was incredible. The human eye is very sensitive to color shifts and even the slightest shift can have an effect on what someone perceives. When I saw the new "tiger stripe" wrap that Pearl is offering, I thought now THAT'S an older-style look that I welcome. Now, if they can just figure out how to make the hardware be in balance with everything else, then they'll be onto something! :)

[jrfrond]

It's kind of the same issue with lacquers. Nitrocellulose lacquer LOOKS beautiful, but is loaded with ozone and lung-eating solvents, and the resulting finish film, which is actually cellulose nitrate (sound familiar?) becomes unstable when all of the solvents have evaporated and begins to check and crack slightly. While this is a cool vibe for guitars, it has never been for drum wraps. These have been supplanted by polyester and polyurethane lacquers, which are impervious to just about anything, but do not have the depth, and are not readily repairable. There's no free lunch, as they say.

[Bebop]

As far as quality goes, most older wraps were cellulose acetate or nitrate, both very unstable and prone to shrinking, cracking and fading. Dyes were different too. They were less stable organic aniline dyes, rather than chemical dyes now used. They were changed due to many reasons, the least of which is that they tended to fade prematurely. So, along with the material change came a slight change in look, but the QUALITY is actually miles ahead of the old stuff, because it won't dance around and change it's colors while on your kit. I think it is an equitable trade-off personally.
I dont think its that good of a trade off. The craftsmanship that went into wraps is gone! Also look at Tommyp's drums. Look at the 1966 Buddy Rich Headliner. It looks NEW! Thats proof that wraps, if taken care of will look great. I think instead of inventing a new technology you should improve the one you have. :)

[O-Lugs]

Well, I do know that I have seen drums that were very well cared for and yet the wraps (or glues) shrunk and when they did, it would cause cracks...and then the edges of the cracks would shrink. It had nothing to do with lack of good care or high/low humidity/sun/etc. It was the material, itself.

But I also see a difference in the depth of beauty between the old and new finishes.

Speaking of maintaining a finish....Old style green sparkle is notorious for fading -maybe the worst fader of all the sparkle finishes, in fact. But, I think there was a look to that old green that is lost on the newer versions. And I, personally, LOVE the look of yellowed WMP. THAT'S a color I wish someone could replicate. I like the look much better than the pristine white stuff -even when it's old style.

But, lilac marine pearl (or whatever the proper name is...is gorgeous!)...and that emerald green pearl that Gretsch used to have was quite stunning. Peacock pearl -beautiful! Slingerland's blue sparkle was different from other ones...just little things like that helped to define a certain aesthetic quality.

[jrfrond]

The fallacy is that the old pearls would not react if they were kept in an environmentally inert atmosphere and protected. The reality is that the only thing that could be done was to SLOW the reaction, since it was caused by solvent evaporation, and things like heat and sunlight tend to accelerate this. Also, poor bonding of the wrap to the shell, or a failed bond, would also cause cracking, creeping and checking. The old acetate and nitrate wraps were much more stable when PROPERLY glued to the substrate (shell).

Newer PVC-based pearls, though they are a thermoplastic, react MUCH less to the atmosphere, though they can wrinkle in high heat or direct sunlight for exended periods. No free lunch. They are also fade-resistant. Many people say that the depth isn't there, and that's subjective, but I still maintain that it's a small price to pay for stability and shelf life.

Another reason that many pearls look different is that their product is an artisan process, and many reissued pearls were made without viable samples, plus the artisans have changed guard in Italy over the years. They are kind of like chefs, following an old recipe, all with slightly different results.

Sparkle and glitter wraps are 100% domestic manufacture, and are either PVC or acrylic-based. Organic aniline dyes were scrapped due to fading problems and poor shelf life. Newer chemical dyes have a slightly different look, but not by much. The new dyes are also more predictable, which is why you can buy a sparkle wrap a year from now, and it will probably be a 90-100% match for the same purchased today. Early sparkles were all over the map! Red Sparkle could be anywhere from a deep quasi-burgundy to fire engine red in the old days. Little chance of matching them. Also, red dyes tended to fade terribly, which explains "root beer" burgundy". Nitrate and acetates tended to yellow, explaining "ginger ale" and "gold champagne" (wow, lots of beverages in here!). While many players and collectors treasure this as much as the patina on a bronze statue, they are considered production anomalies for the industry, and were corrected as the technology progressed. In the end, we really do have a better product.

[4MoreYearsOhNo]

JR, you seem to know the history of these. I read somewhere that the old unstable wraps are the ones that "catch-a-fire" when heated, and that they stopped making these back in the 20's or 30's. Is this right? Do you know when the transitions - from nitrate to acetate to PVC (and any others in between) happened? Apparently one or two companies made wrap for all the manufacturers - do you know when those companies changed their manufacturing processes and from what to what?

[jrfrond]

Any acetate or nitrate wrap will flash when heated enough. Just goes up in a puff of smoke. This includes new acetate wraps e.g. 60's BOP. It's not that acetates CAN'T be made, they are just not as common. Nitrates were before acetates but ALSO can still be made.

I have always kept up with the technology behind wraps, but I've learned a TON from my buddy who posts as WrapGuru at DrumForum and DrumSmith. He's the man...period.