Is this a Ludwig Rocker ?

[pipo]

Hello,

(excuse me for my bad english, i'm french !)

would like to have some information on this drum, that I thought it was a first production Ludwig "rocker", but with some strange details...

- It's a 12*8, 13*9, 16*16, 22*14 kit, with a "chrome on wood 14*5 snare.

- Black cortex wrapping

- Nothing on wood inside the shells (no paint)

- long black and silver sticker badge

- classic lugs (I think...)


So...is that a rocker kit ? a classic kit ? Did anybody know a kit who was sold with the "chrome on wood" snare ? What about this cheap badge ?

here the photos :





Thanks for your help !

[pipo]

More photos :

[jrfrond]

I'm an old Ludwig aficionado, going back to the late 60's, and I've NEVER seen that sticker badge. Weird!

What I am seeing here is a hybrid of sorts, cost cutting attempts by Ludwig. The T-tods, curved spurs and Classic lugs say "Classic", but the Chrome-O-Wood snare with plastic-end snare wires, no BD hoop inlays, use of all small Classic lugs for the toms and that non-descript badge say "budget". Those are the 6-ply Classic shells though, and Black Cortex was also available as a Classic wrap.

The first Rocker series, back in the early-80's, had budget spurs and T-rods, and was available in only solid Cortex wraps, with a black/white Ludwig badge, and 4-ply shells with Granitone interiors. Perhaps this kit was it's predecessor. Who knows? Ludwig did all kinds of weird stuff, like the Educator series. Later Rocker USA kits used the old Ludwig Standard lugs and 6-ply shells with kick spurs and a ball tom holder.

[ARCHxANGEL]

I'm in agreeance with JRFrond here.And that badge is very interesting.Ludwig as far as I knew used ( and this is just mainly Ludwig from the 60's up ) The Keystone,The Blue / Olive,The Black / White,and now the larger Newer Keystone badge.I forget what the standard kits used but it wasn't the Japanese style tacked badge.However I must think could this possibly be a " standard " set before the lugs were fully changed along with a new badge? Definatly a nice kit and one that intriques interest.

[pipo]

Thanks for your responses !

In this page : http://www.drumatix.com/lf-Ds-39.html
We can see a "rocker II" with same badge, but some difference with my model...any ideas ?

[ARCHxANGEL]

Going from that the kit you have may be a custom kit.The only differences I can see are the bass drum spurs and your kit features the L-arm tol holders as opposed to the clip style.It wasn't uncommon for Ludwig to do things like this.I have a 70's bass drum blue / olive badge that dates to about 73-74 going by the larger serial number.However it features the 60's style spurs ( like seen on the link you provided ) and a rail consololate to mount a single tom from.

[vk1drums]

From what I've been told above from my earlier post (with the white and off/white Ludwig Rockers pictured) the drums that have black/silver badges are considered (Made in Japan) stencil drums with the unfinished inner ply. Not sure how accurate a statement that is with your kit, but that's my current understanding.

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showpost.php?p=104318&postcount=13

[section2]

I'm in agreeance with JRFrond here.And that badge is very interesting.Ludwig as far as I knew used ( and this is just mainly Ludwig from the 60's up ) The Keystone,The Blue / Olive,The Black / White,and now the larger Newer Keystone badge.I forget what the standard kits used but it wasn't the Japanese style tacked badge.However I must think could this possibly be a " standard " set before the lugs were fully changed along with a new badge? Definatly a nice kit and one that intriques interest.

This wouldn't be a Standard kit--the Standards were three-ply shells with re-rings and used a rounded triangle badge. I think (though I'm not sure) they had phased out the Standard line by the time the cortex wraps and power tom sizes came along.

This kit is an odd duck, to be sure. But if it's got the six-ply shells, I'm sure it sounds terrific!

[Ludwig-dude]

Ok....here's my take.....The snare IS an early 1980's Standard series chrome-o-wood snare. The Bass drum is a 3-ply with reinforcement rings....look closely at the pics guys, there are reinforcement rings in there and there is a rough seam inside. 6-ply drums were molded into shape and had no visible lap seam like that, this 3-ply (like all 3-ply Ludwig drums) was bent into shape. This appears to be an early 80's (1980-82ish) Ludwig Standard series drumset that was fitted with curved spurs instead of the usual telescopic spurs, this is why all the drums have the mini-classic lugs. A regular mid-70's "classic" set would have had large classic lugs on all the drums BUT the 8x12 tom.

As far as the badges, I haven't seen them before, but they could be standard issue, or someone's custom touch. Either way, it's not a common kit, as most were considered "budget" throw-away kits, which is unfortunate as they basically used the same shells as the earlier "classic" 3-ply shells.....far from a budget kit for sure......

[Ludwig-dude]

This wouldn't be a Standard kit--the Standards were three-ply shells with re-rings and used a rounded triangle badge. I think (though I'm not sure) they had phased out the Standard line by the time the cortex wraps and power tom sizes came along.

This kit is an odd duck, to be sure. But if it's got the six-ply shells, I'm sure it sounds terrific!

You are forgetting about the later Standard series kits from the early 1980's....

[johnnyringo]

Ok....here's my take.....The snare IS an early 1980's Standard series chrome-o-wood snare. The Bass drum is a 3-ply with reinforcement rings....look closely at the pics guys, there are reinforcement rings in there and there is a rough seam inside. 6-ply drums were molded into shape and had no visible lap seam like that, this 3-ply (like all 3-ply Ludwig drums) was bent into shape. This appears to be an early 80's (1980-82ish) Ludwig Standard series drumset that was fitted with curved spurs instead of the usual telescopic spurs, this is why all the drums have the mini-classic lugs. A regular mid-70's "classic" set would have had large classic lugs on all the drums BUT the 8x12 tom.

As far as the badges, I haven't seen them before, but they could be standard issue, or someone's custom touch. Either way, it's not a common kit, as most were considered "budget" throw-away kits, which is unfortunate as they basically used the same shells as the earlier "classic" 3-ply shells.....far from a budget kit for sure......

That is not a 3ply shell, it's a 6ply, the 22" kick also has 8 lugs which would mean a budget kit.

[Ludwig-dude]

That is not a 3ply shell, it's a 6ply, the 22" kick also has 8 lugs which would mean a budget kit.

6-ply shells DO NOT have a lap joint like that and it DOES have reinforcement rings...they are hard to see but they are there. I stand by my original statement of what they are.

If they aren't there in that pic, then there sure is a strange shadow going on inside that drum, not to mention some strange water staining too......

[pipo]

Sorry, but there is not any reinforcement rings on that kit...

[eamesuser]

The later standard series had black and white badges,6 ply bass,4 ply toms,came in 4 finishes and an 8 lug bass,and came in a 22 12 13 16 config. I have a similar kit,I think it may be an S/L but I think it came in between the last standards and the 1st rockers,it is black has B/W badges,no serial # 6 ply 8 lug bass with the heavy duty curved spurs,same tom mount as OP,Toms are 4 ply mini lugs on all toms,and the interiors are a beige/ tan paint.The early rockers had the mini lugs on toms,but were all 4 ply.I have seen a couple of late standard,early rocker and S/L kits where someone removed the paint,and there was always a pretty good looking maple ply underneath,I had to sand down a bearing edge on mine and it looked like the shell is a maple poplar mix,just like the top line ludwig shell of the day.And yes, mine came with a 4 ply chrome over wood snare with 8 double ended classic lugs and a p-85 strainer.My s/l or whatever it is kit has been a beater kit for 15 years and is still holding up well,I only have had to replace the tom brackets with a girbraltar mount on R.I.M.S,I bought them used and I only had to level and bend a couple of hoops back into shape,and there was some router rash on the edges with a couple of high spots/flat spots,once I leveled and contoured the edge,they sound good.They sound good in the low,medium and med high tuning range,but don't seem to like high or be bop tunings.

[Pounder]

I think this could indeed be a Ludwig Rocker. 8 lugs on a 22" bass, no inlay on the hoops, no re-rings pictured, a fairly rough looking interior maple ply, small lugs on larger drums, no badges on the drums, these are all evidence it is a later Rockers set with the classic lugs. Curved arc large spurs would not normally be on a set with re-rings. It doesn't have re-rings and the larger spurs are consistent with an after-1980 set. Of course this is all based on limited information. Pictures help tons but they're nowhere close to actual inspection of the drums. If you have them you can look closer for signs of re-wrap, inspect the rare stick-on tag, etc. I'm reluctant to call it a "custom" set, or non-original. On the face of it it just looks like an 80s Rocker set. The snare drum is consistent with that. You know Ludwig had all kinds of anomalies coming out of the factory at the time.

I'm thinking in general mid-80s era, much like this Series Five set shown here from the '84 catalog (other than the badges and the curved spurs)

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_sets/1984_ludwig_drumsets26.jpg

[RogerSling]

Is that three seams we see in the bass?

[pipo]

What do you mean, "three seams" ?

[RogerSling]

In the closeup of the bass, there appears to be a seam right along the spur mount. It looks like a second one on the left where the next T-Rod would be. Then, just equidistant left, there appears to be another. These look like wood seams ... where the wood was butted/joined together. Am I seeing things again?

[FatherTime]

I just bought this from a coworker who told me he got it in 83/84. His first kit. It had rocker heads on it and in our conversation I think he said it was a rocker. 6 ply, with a tan colored interior with the Black/white badge. I don't know if this helps with IDing your drums.