402 or not a 402?

[studiotoad]

Hi all

I'm looking to buy a supraphonic 402 Ludwig snare shortly, probably via eBay- just wanted to confirm a few details to make sure I get wot I pay for;

as I understand it the classic 402 "John Bonham" snare was aluminium (or Ludalloy?) with classic lugs, 805 strainer and 14"by 6.5".

and blue/olive badge was used up to around 79? later examples would hace the tombstone badge?

were there any serial numbers that confirm a snare as a 402?

Thanks in advance
Dave

[bigz]

hi there,

the blue olive badge was used up until 1984. if you chose a 70's 402 you should find the edges of the badge to be pointed, and early 80's to be rounded off. This gives you a vague idea of the age, they used to print numbers onto the badges, and then sometimes not fix them to a drum for weeks/ months, so although its not a bad way to age a ludwig 400/402, its not dead accurate.

[studiotoad]

That's great, thank you.

Did Ludwig actually stamp/print the model number anywhere, say inside the shell perhaps?

one of the examples I've my eye on on eBay (I'm in the UK btw) is described as a 400, but is 6.5" deep- so is a 402 surely??

As I understand it there are no visual clues to destinguish between the ally and brass models, although some (?) were stamped with BR, and the alloy ones suffer pitting.

You wisdom greatfully received!

[CharlesM]

Hi studio,

Yes, the 402 is always the 6.5" deep model, so I suspect the "400" is a typo on that seller's part. Some people erroneously think "400" refers to all Supraphonics.

From the examples I've seen, the only stamp Ludwig ever gave on Supras is a date stamp on the inside of the drum. My '66 Supra has a month/year stamp, and my '99 has only a year stamp. (Both 400 models)

Generally speaking, the 402 details are 6.5" x 14", aluminum "Ludalloy" shell, 10 imperial lugs, triple-flange hoops, P83 or P85 throwoff (depending on era), raised center bead. The badge will vary according to era, as mentioned below.

If there is a lot of pitting, it's probably the aluminum model, since chrome plating mated with brass much more successfully.

Without access to the drum, I'm not sure how you could confirm if it's a brass shell or not. If you had the drum, you could most likely tell by the weight and tone. You could also remove one of the lugs, for example, and look at the shell's cross-section to see if it's brass.

The ol' magnet test is not reliable with Supras, since magnets do not attract well to either brass or aluminum.

Hope this helps,
Charles

[studiotoad]

That's a great help Charles, thanks for your time.

Best get my bidding hat on now, think I've found a bargain!

Cheers