Zildjian Family Cymbal Auction - 14 WWII aged cymbals

[mcjnic]

This is an auction that should be posted on this site. These cymbals are oh so sweet and oh so rare. Have some fun!

Here's the writeup for the cymbals:

About these cymbals:
Fourteen cymbals from Craigie and Debbie Zildjian's grandfather's WWII "never released" Zildjian cymbal collection will be auctioned at Cymbal Summit. These cymbals were made in the Quincy, Massachusetts factory. The manufacturing methods of the day ensured that each cymbal was a unique instrument. Like a fine wine, these cymbals have been aging for approximately sixty years. Auction proceeds will be awarded to The Avedis Zildjian Scholarship Program.


http://mycymbal.com/index.php?main_page=products_new

[Drumaholic]

I like this statement:

" The manufacturing methods of the day ensured that each cymbal was a unique instrument."

Since they decided to made that distinction, and make it in their own words; then this is about as close as we'll ever get to hearing them admit to something that I've been saying for years now....and I might add, is something for which I was endlessly excoriated for on "that other site".

Namely:

What they make today are "cookie cutter" cymbals.

[mcjnic]

They posted some nice vids to view and hear the cymbals. That medium thin 20 inch ride is un-freekin' real. I love that cymbal......if you happen to be shopping for me.

[vintagemore2000]

I like this statement:



Since they decided to made that distinction, and make it in their own words; then this is about as close as we'll ever get to hearing them admit to something that I've been saying for years now....and I might add, is something for which I was endlessly excoriated for on "that other site".

Namely:

What they make today are "cookie cutter" cymbals.Drumaholic, Brother first off I have been in the vintage game a long time,and I haven't met anyone as knowledgable about vintage cymbals as yourself!!! and if the other site is to wimpy to take on somone who knows what their are talking about then great man that's their lose No ours, thank you for your help to all of us here!!! but also not only are cymbals made in cookie cutter fashion don't you think the drums that are now made in most part are also cookie cutter fashion.Violin

[Drumaholic]

Drumaholic, Brother first off I have been in the vintage game a long time,and I haven't met anyone as knowledgable about vintage cymbals as yourself!!! and if the other site is to wimpy to take on somone who knows what they are talking about them great man that's their lose No ours, thank you for your help to all of us here!!! but also not only are cymbals made in cookie cutter fashion don't you think the drums that are now made in most part are also cookie cutter fashion.Violin

Yes I agree. We're on the same page bro.

Good to be here where I seem to be much better appreciated, and where I don't seem to be in danger of suffering through a withering attack each and every time I say something just a tiny bit controversial like this.

[Drumaholic]

If you'll check out the Memphis Drum Shop site now, they have video demonstrations of these cymbals.

I got a pretty good look at the trademark on one, and they don't appear to be from the period. These should be pre-war old stamps, but they defintiely are not. They're not trans stamps either, but I wouldn't expect them to be since those didn't come into use until the late 1940's.

It would seem that these had the trademarks added more to them more recently, maybe whenever it was that they decided to release these from the vault.

[kevins]

I like this statement:
Quote:
" The manufacturing methods of the day ensured that each cymbal was a unique instrument."



Since they decided to made that distinction, and make it in their own words; then this is about as close as we'll ever get to hearing them admit to something that I've been saying for years now....and I might add, is something for which I was endlessly excoriated for on "that other site".

Namely:

What they make today are "cookie cutter" cymbals.
Drumaholic
Do you believe this occurred when the brothers split and Robert started up Sabian in the Canada plant, or had the cookie cutter mentality begun earlier?
I remember too, in one of your posts, and I'm paraphrasing here, that you believe that Sabian cymbals have more characteristics of older Zildjian cymbals than current Zildjian cymbals do. I think that was the jist of the post .... if not, please excuse and correct me....
Anyway, could you expand on that observation, please?
And do you feel this goes back to the beginning of Sabian, or has it become more evident as the years passed up to present?
Thanks very much

[mcjnic]

Yes I agree. We're on the same page bro.

Good to be here where I seem to be much better appreciated, and where I don't seem to be in danger of suffering through a withering attack each and every time I say something just a tiny bit controversial like this.

Buddy, I for one am exceedingly glad you are here. I have learned from pretty much every post you've made. You are more than an asset. Thank you.

[EDL]

Bill,
What do you think of this...was posted on Cymbalholics..
This is Zildjians answer to the "stamp question.."



Hello,

I am glad to see all the interest in the old cymbals Zildjian sent to the Memphis Drum Shop for the cymbal Summit this coming May. Jim Pettit emailed me today and asked that I answer some of your questions regarding the Old "A's" in the Cymbal summit auction. The Zildjian Family has an archived vault of these cymbals in the factory. None of the cymbals are trademarked. None of these cymbals are signed in the cups. The reason for no trademarks or signatures is that these two things were not done until the Cymball Tester selected the order back in the good old days. Only then would Avedis sign the cups. This is straight from Leon Chiappini, head cymbal tester, who has been at Zildjian for 49 years now. In my office I have all the old trademarks that were used for the thirty years prior to laser engraving which started in 1994. I had Leon take a look at all of the trademarks and select the one that looked the oldest to him. Leon then proceeded to trademark all the cymbals like we never stopped using this machine! We know that the majority of the cymbals were made during the WWII era but some may have been made earlier or later than that time period.

With regard to the pairs with a heavier bottom, I too asked Leon, who matched all the hi hat pairs for the auction, about matching some of the pairs with a heavier bottom and he told me that it was done back then. "We used to match pairs with a band cymbal for a bottom" It wasn't untl the at late 60's that the New Beat hi hat design became a standard pairing.

I hope this information helps answer some of the questions. I hope to see some of you at this event in May. All the Best.

Paul

Would you think it would be out of the question to actually see the stamps located in Zildjians office...!!!

[Drumaholic]

I for one would like to see those trademark stamps, even though I'm sure that they have no idea of the years that they were used. I also have a feeling that they wouldn't find any reason to share them with us though.

Also the information on when they were stamped and signed makes good sense to me. It's also good to hear exactly when it was done and why it was done later; and all from a first hand source.